Shooting Percentage for week 1

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

Geometrically, I agree with you, but defense will be much easier in Stronghold than in 2012. The only safe zone is at least 16ft away.

...and on batter

[Ty Tremblay]

Originally Posted by Boltman

...and on batter

You're not protected there. It's like in front of the low goal in 2014. Teams could bash away at you while you were there and they can do the same while you're on the batter.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Boltman

...and on batter

The batter offers no protection (via rules) until the final 20 seconds. The geometry of the batter may help you avoid defensive measures from steering you off target when shooting, but that same geometry may well also work against you making it off the batter and back to collect more boulders in a timely fashion.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

You're not protected there. It's like in front of the low goal in 2014. Teams could bash away at you while you were there and they can do the same while you're on the batter.

Exactly this.
And a word of advice, hold that ball in tight and make sure the back of your robot (opposite side of shooting) is robust.
I cant stress enough how many times the back of our robot got damaged from appendages coming into our robot from high speed ramming in 2014 as we scored from in front the low goal.
And 99% of them were no penalty calls too.

[daliberator]

Originally Posted by Procolsaurus

Top 1% of teams: 80%
Top 5% of teams :65%
average team: 30%

I think this is probably going to be the case, especially at less-competitive events.

[jeremylee]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

The batter offers no protection (via rules) until the final 20 seconds.

Pinning?

[PayneTrain]

Hitting 2 out of every 3 shots in Rebound Rumble is a lot more favorable than making 2 of 3 shots in Stronghold.

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by jeremylee

Pinning?

Draft of a question I plan to submit to Q&A:
------------------
Per Rule G22, would either of the following actions by blue robot initiate the 5 second countdown toward a pinning penalty:
a) Red robot is fully supported by blue batter and is in control of a boulder. Red robot appears to be preparing to score the boulder and does not appear to be attempting to leave the batter. Blue robot makes contact (single or repeated) with red robot and remains in a position that would prevent red robot from leaving the batter.
b) Red robot has released control of the boulder and appears to be attempting to leave the batter. Blue robot is in a position that would prevent red robot from leaving the batter.

In other words, does G22 provide limited protection to robots on the batter that are attempting to score boulders, or are they subject to normal defensive action as long as they are attempting to score and not attempting to leave the batter?
----------------------------------

As for the shooting percentage for Week 1, I voted for 31%-40% but I suspect that is too high. Never underestimate the ability of teams to overestimate the quality of Week 1 performance.

[Ian Good]

I think that the teams that find themselves missing their shots will start putting the ball into the low goal and the teams that are dialed in will continue to shoot, increasing the average accurace of the event.

[Mr. Lim]

The definition of pinning a robot on the batter has been on my mind a lot right now too.

When a robot is fully on the batter, it's basically enclosed on 3 of 4 sides by the field. An opposing robot simply has to drive near the open side to be considering pinning it. Will refs call it this way, and start counting down as an opposing robot gets near?

The rules are pretty clear to me, but sometimes the actual gameplay is different.

This has major implications, because it basically means defending robots need to leave a clear path for robots to drive off the batter, or risk being called for pinning.

[mwmac]

Originally Posted by Mr. Lim

The definition of pinning a robot on the batter has been on my mind a lot right now too.

When a robot is fully on the batter, it's basically enclosed on 3 of 4 sides by the field. An opposing robot simply has to drive near the open side to be considering pinning it. Will refs call it this way, and start counting down as an opposing robot gets near?

The rules are pretty clear to me, but sometimes the actual gameplay is different.

This has major implications, because it basically means defending robots need to leave a clear path for robots to drive off the batter, or risk being called for pinning.

Update 10's blue box dealing with G22 pinning on the batter is ambiguous at best since it says the above actions by the defending robot "could be considered pinning". Mayhaps GDC and Q&A could use more direct language when crafting a blue box response the purpose of which is to clarify the GDC's intention behind a rule. As a suggestion, "will be considered pinning" works...

[Nathan Streeter]

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

Draft of a question I plan to submit to Q&A:
------------------
Per Rule G22, would either of the following actions by blue robot initiate the 5 second countdown toward a pinning penalty:
a) Red robot is fully supported by blue batter and is in control of a boulder. Red robot appears to be preparing to score the boulder and does not appear to be attempting to leave the batter. Blue robot makes contact (single or repeated) with red robot and remains in a position that would prevent red robot from leaving the batter.
b) Red robot has released control of the boulder and appears to be attempting to leave the batter. Blue robot is in a position that would prevent red robot from leaving the batter.

In other words, does G22 provide limited protection to robots on the batter that are attempting to score boulders, or are they subject to normal defensive action as long as they are attempting to score and not attempting to leave the batter?

Have you seen the blue box added to G22 in Team Update 10 (scroll down)? It pretty clearly answers situation B...

Originally Posted by G22 Blue Box from Team Update 10

There is no FIRST Robotics Competition specific definition of pin, so a
general definition applies; “to prevent or stop something from moving.”
As a result, contact is not required for pinning to occur. For example, a
ROBOT parked right behind an opponent that is on the BATTER could
be considered pinning because the dividers on the BATTER and the
parked ROBOT prevent the opponent from moving.

I - personally - am disappointed to see this update that came late in the build season (and which flew under my radar until yesterday). We largely avoided designing around scoring from the batter based on concern with being pinned in. This update probably is good for the broader elevation of scoring, but further reduces viable defensive strategies.

Particularly if we end up having trouble scoring as accurately as we need from farther out, we may still be able to use the base of the tower as a "safe" shooting location.

Originally Posted by Mr. Lim

The definition of pinning a robot on the batter has been on my mind a lot right now too.

When a robot is fully on the batter, it's basically enclosed on 3 of 4 sides by the field. An opposing robot simply has to drive near the open side to be considering pinning it. Will refs call it this way, and start counting down as an opposing robot gets near?

The ambiguity opened up by the potential for non-contact pinning definitely does make this situation (and Wayne's situation A) more vague and subjective than I like. Hearkens back to some of the 2014 refing woes (although hopefully much less common).

EDIT: I'm adding a link over to the Team Update 10 thread for commenting on this fact... it seemed that it hadn't been mentioned in that thread up to now.

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter

Have you seen the blue box added to G22 in Team Update 10 (scroll down)? It pretty clearly answers situation B...



I - personally - am disappointed to see this update that came late in the build season (and which flew under my radar until yesterday). We largely avoided designing around scoring from the batter based on concern with being pinned in. This update probably is good for the broader elevation of scoring, but further reduces viable defensive strategies.

Particularly if we end up having trouble scoring as accurately as we need from farther out, we may still be able to use the base of the tower as a "safe" shooting location.



The ambiguity opened up by the potential for non-contact pinning definitely does make this situation (and Wayne's situation A) more vague and subjective than I like. Hearkens back to some of the 2014 refing woes (although hopefully much less common).

EDIT: I'm adding a link over to the Team Update 10 thread for commenting on this fact... it seemed that it hadn't been mentioned in that thread up to now.

Yes, I have seen the Update 10 wording. I agree that it clearly answers "Situation B", but is ambiguous on "Situation A". When it comes to the G21 exception to G11 (G11 Blue box item C) the GDC chose to let robots do what they need to do to play the game without being penalized. In the case of G22 on the batter, the defending robot could be considered to be taking legitimate game-play action up to the point where the scoring robot makes there shot - but then maybe not. It makes a big difference to how the game might be played.

I have tried to submit the question to Q&A, but can't manage to get into the system. I tried my normal login ID and the Q&A login from TIMS with no success. If anybody else wants to submit it, please do.

[jeremylee]

I'm been thinking of the following scenario's (basically breaking A into 3 categories):
1. Offensive robot drives onto batter with bumper or robot itself against opponents castle wall, defending robot initiates contact.
2. Offensive robot drives onto batter with bumper or robot itself against the dividers, defending robot initiates contact.
3. Offensive robot drives onto batter but not against opponents castle wall or dividers, defending robot initiates contact.
4. Offensive robot on batter after shot trying to move away from the castle, defending robot blocking exit.

My current thoughts are:
1: pinning same as it would be if you were pushed up against the field wall
2: pinning same as it would be if you were pushed up against the field wall
3: may or may not be covered under G22 blue box update
4: pinning based on G22 blue box update

Very ambiguous indeed if you ask me, and likely a common scenario since this plays out for the low goals also.