Low Bar Flap

[aruk5h]

I was watching the week 0 competition, and one of the teams kept flipping the flap of the low bar over the bar that it hangs from so there would be enough room for a boulder to go through. My question is, is that allowed and is there a penalty if a team does that and the human player rolls the ball hard enough that it would go over the ramp and under the low bar?

[Mark McLeod]

Not legal.

Originally Posted by G40-1

A ROBOT may not hold a Low Bar flap open for the purpose of allowing a DRIVE TEAM member to transfer BOULDERS into their opponent’s COURTYARD.
Violation: TECH FOUL per BOULDER

[tindleroot]

I would ask that in the q and a. G40-1 doesn't really answer your question.

[cjl2625]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

Not legal.

But this isn't holding the flap open. As I understand it, this is a robot causing the flap to get wrapped around the bar after going through it.

[Mark McLeod]

I'd think that the flap would be open due to the actions of a robot (whatever those actions may have been).

[cad321]

We too found this during out practice session today and we're wondering the exact same thing. I don't feel g40-1 is applicable here as we are not holding it open.

[MrForbes]

How accurately did the flap match the real version of the low bar flap? If it was built as a team version, instead of the real field version, it probably behaves differently.

[Sean4488]

This rule appears to be addressing just intentionally holding it open, not unintentionally flipping it. However, that does seem to be the spirit of the rule, if not what is technically written there. I think it would generally be safer just to avoid messing with it.

[cad321]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

How accurately did the flap match the real version of the low bar flap? If it was built as a team version, instead of the real field version, it probably behaves differently.

I saw this happening in almost every Mach I watched of the merrimack off season which is an official first event with official field components.

[rich2202]

IMHO, if it happens in normal game play, then no foul. If a robot sat there and wound it, then that is a different story.

If there were quick cycles, and the team used the low bar until it is wound, that is normal game play

[Mark McLeod]

If the Refs judge it to be considered a normal, unavoidable condition of the field, then yea the teams might not be held liable.

[MechEng83]

Not sure if the fabric is pinned to the bar on an official field, but at our week zero event, several teams caused the flip to happen, and the loop of fabric just went around the top bar and the weighted bar spun it so it fell back to the fully down.

[Mark McLeod]

It was a loose fabric sleeve around the low bar on the real playing field at the Kickoff in Manchester, so when flipped over it just slipped and hung straight down again.

[mjc49]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

If the Refs judge it to be considered a normal, unavoidable condition of the field, then yea the teams might not be held liable.

I agree though I think we'll ask our human players not to risk it until a precedence has been set. Tech Foul per Boulder is a stiff penalty if a ref has a different interpretation of the rule.

[Captain_Kirch]

G40 "A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s COURTYARD unless:
A. the ROBOT contacts the BOULDER within OUTER WORKS, and
B. the ROBOT completes its CROSSING (e.g. doesn’t completely back out of the OUTER WORKS into the NEUTRAL ZONE)
Violation: TECH FOUL per BOULDER"

Using the human player in that way would clearly be illegal under G40. No precedent, no gray area, it's illegal.

The bar wont flip over and get tangled because its a bar in sleeve design on the official fields.

G40-1 is not the rule that makes this illegal, it's an extension of the rule that makes this illegal.

Hopefully that puts a nice bow on this discussion. Good luck folks