Possession of more than one Boulder

[Ginger Power]

If you are holding and boulder, and you accidentally drive over another boulder (a ridiculously common occurrence) does it count as possession of more than one Boulder?

Probably a question for the Q and A, but I'd like to hear some discussion about it here. If it is in fact possession of more than one Boulder that will hugely effect a ton of teams. "Brush Guards" will become almost mandatory. For anybody who has attended a week zero event, you know how common/easy it is to drive over a boulder.

[Edxu]

My interpretation would be that it's under "Bulldozing" in G38's Blue Box, as you're not intentionally driving over the boulder, but have contacted it as a result of it being in your path to your next goal eg. scoring.

It's probably not considered "Trapping", because you're most likely not making an effort to shield or guard them.

[rich2202]

Brief contact while driving over a boulder is not control of the boulder.

Now, if you sit on the boulder to keep the other alliance from getting to it ...

[JustinCAD]

I agree with Edxu, rule G38's blue box also states: Moving or positioning a BOULDER to gain advantage is considered “control.”

As long as it isn't a way to gain an advantage, I would consider accidentally driving over the boulder a viable action and wouldn't interfere with the rules.

[AlecMataloni]

At the championship in 2012, we lost a qualifying match on a penalty because a referee flagged us for possession of 4 balls. The 4th ball was "possessed" when we landed on it while going over an obstacle to score our other three balls.

Be prepared for garbage calls from referees regardless of what the "spirit of the rule" is. FIRST utilizes volunteers, and not all volunteers (and their interpretation/understanding of the rules) are created equal.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by AlecMataloni

At the championship in 2012, we lost a qualifying match on a penalty because a referee flagged us for possession of 4 balls. The 4th ball was "possessed" when we landed on it while going over an obstacle to score our other three balls.

Be prepared for garbage calls from referees regardless of what the "spirit of the rule" is. FIRST utilizes volunteers, and not all volunteers (and their interpretation/understanding of the rules) are created equal.

This wouldn't be a garbage call. The interpretation of this rule is truly a gray area.

Not all volunteers are created equally, but every volunteer I know does their best. They're giving up their time to make these events possible.

[GaryVoshol]

Interesting similarity:

2012 rules, blue box, G22:

A Basketball that becomes unintentionally lodged on a Robot will be considered controlled by the Robot. It is important to design your Robot so that it is impossible to inadvertently or intentionally control more than three Basketballs at a time.

2016 rules, blue box, G38:

If a BOULDER becomes lodged in or on a ROBOT, it will be considered controlled by the ROBOT. It is important to design your ROBOT so that it is impossible to inadvertently or unintentionally control more than the allowed maximum.

[AlecMataloni]

Even the best of designed robots would have gotten a penalty based on what I saw happen. There's not a whole lot you can do to avoid landing on a ball when it's hidden from the drivers by a metal channel and is right behind an obstacle.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by AlecMataloni

Even the best of designed robots would have gotten a penalty based on what I saw happen. There's not a whole lot you can do to avoid landing on a ball when it's hidden from the drivers by a metal channel and is right behind an obstacle.

I agree completely. That's why I think it's important we have a discussion about it now as opposed to week .5 when these calls start happening.

[waialua359]

This makes having a camera(s) ever so important. We have been practicing on a full size field and balls in hidden spots got trapped under our robot a few times.
We have two cameras and it definitely helps. This in addition to accurately making high goal shots.😊