Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

[michchinn]

There is no need to assume the intent of the rule when it’s very clearly given to you.
Here is the blue box beneath R28:

The intent is that the Team’s number is clearly visible and unambiguous so that Judges, Referees, Announcers, and other Teams can easily identify competing ROBOTS.

It’s difficult to argue that many announcers could recognize Egyptian numerals on sight.

Originally Posted by dtengineering

When I read the section requiring only numerals on the bumpers, the manual does NOT require the numerals to be written in the standard western arabic numeral system. We've all assumed that it does... but it doesn't SAY that it does. Yet, "If you've read everything, you know everything." Clearly the numeral system is not defined, and therefore intentionally open to interpretation.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by michchinn

It’s difficult to argue that many announcers could recognize Egyptian numerals on sight.

But can the same be said for our logo? I'm too biased to give a fair assessment, plus I know our logo and team number like the back of hand. It's actually my phone background...

A lot of people have responded that they couldn't tell the hex was meant to be a "0". That's understandable, but I would argue not enough to say it's illegal (that's the bias...). My question then becomes: To what extent is creativity legal? If not our complete logo, then how about just a hex outline? If we take the letters out does it become legal?

I want to know where the line is so I can push right up next to it without crossing.

[michchinn]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

To what extent is creativity legal? If not our complete logo, then how about just a hex outline? If we take the letters out does it become legal?

I want to know where the line is so I can push right up next to it without crossing.

As you said earlier

This particular question has been debated by multiple LRI's and I've heard different opinions.

From CD, you’re always going to get varying opinions - but it doesn’t actually matter what anyone on here says. Unless you can get clarification through a Q and A on your specific strategy (good luck) or a general clarification about the rules, you will be leaving it to the discretion of the RIs at your events as to whether or not its legal. The choice to change it now or have the possibility of changing it at an event is up to your discretion.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

A lot of people have responded that they couldn't tell the hex was meant to be a "0". That's understandable, but I would argue not enough to say it's illegal (that's the bias...).

Ryan,
I watched your robot compete on the Centurion-Krawler stream for about 2.5 matches before I realized that the robot I was watching was a CIS robot. In comparison, I could identify 2501, 3313, 2052, and others right away by their bumpers.

Given, this may say more about the quality of the stream than your robot, however, you need to be aware that you will be mis-identified more than once this season with those bumpers. Even if this were legal, I would advise against it. There are many other better locations for your logo.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

A lot of people have responded that they couldn't tell the hex was meant to be a "0". That's understandable, but I would argue not enough to say it's illegal (that's the bias...).

I think this meets the definition of "ambiguous." I honestly could not tell that was a zero..a hexagon isn't a typical zero shape. And zeros typically aren't circles; they're ovals, so the regular shape of the hexagon threw me off. The letters are, to me, something not a number. So if I inspected this robot I would tell you to fix the numbers, and of course the LTS would end up getting involved.

If the rest of the numbers were in a font that more closely matched the hexagon I think you'd have a better argument. But to me the letters would still be a problem.

[rich2202]

Jason's post reminded me about something someone said about the bumper rules. Unlike the robot rules, where if it is not illegal, then you can do it, the bumper rules are the opposit: if it does not say you can do it, then you can't.

So, the question is: where in the rules does it allow you put anything but the numbers on the bumper? All the decoration inside the 0 is not allowed. In addition, the font of the 0 is different from the other numbers, which adds confusion.

[JacobD]

If I was you I would show up with those bumpers. If the RI doesn't let it pass, then just safety pin a piece of fabric over the interior of the 0. Then, it is definitely ambiguous.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by JacobD

If I was you I would show up with those bumpers. If the RI doesn't let it pass, then just safety pin a piece of fabric over the interior of the 0. Then, it is definitely ambiguous.

Safety pin? Sorry, then it's definitely illegal. No hard parts past 1" from the Frame Perimeter.


I'd be thinking red paint myself.

OR, here's an option, but I don't know if you'll want to use it: Build a second set of red bumpers. This set is your "show" bumpers.

[cadandcookies]

I'm not an inspector, but I think it was pretty darn obvious that the team was 4607 and not 467. Even more so from a distance-- brains are pretty good at making out patterns.

My opinion means precisely nothing here but they don't seem particularly ambiguous to me. The biggest issue I have is with CIS being printed on them.

Again, my opinion isn't really relevant but it seems a bit pedantic and needlessly picky to say they aren't legal numerals. I suppose that's what you sign up for as an inspector though