Week 0 Discussion

[MrRoboSteve]

True story from Saturday.

MrRoboSteve to drive team: Hey, you should try playing some defense. How about hassling that Red robot with the ball in it?

Drive team member: Um, did you see that mechanism on the top of their robot? It looks like 5 pounds of metal held on by two small pieces of 1/8" polycarbonate. Are you sure we should be doing that?

MrRoboSteve: Oh, it must be stronger than that. I think it's the angle that we're looking at the robot.

You know what happened. After the match, our drive team member went and apologized to the Red robot's drive team.

[RoboAlum]

So after watching a few matches lining up is a lot easier especially if you have a dumby stick and a good HP spy.

[Dan Petrovic]

Originally Posted by mwtidd

When refs miss defense crossings it's painful, especially with manipulated defenses.

You'll see here that a red portcullis crossing is missed.

...

This scenario is particularly frustrating because in this case, two robots were distracted with a task that shouldn't have been necessary.

I know that this can be frustrating, but please remember that these were among the first matches ever played on the Stronghold field and the scoring was being performed by young and inexperienced volunteers.

I wouldn't expect this type of thing to happen during official competitions.

[cjl2625]

Originally Posted by RoboAlum

So after watching a few matches lining up is a lot easier especially if you have a dumby stick and a good HP spy.

What do you mean by a dumby stick?

[RoboAlum]

I personally started using them during rebound rumble its just piece of 1x1 or even wood with bright tape. the bright tape is taped to the 1x1 at the angle you shoot at. different colors different angles different shots.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Dan Petrovic

I wouldn't expect this type of thing to happen during official competitions.

I would. Referees will straight-up miss some, FMS errors will contribute some, humans incorrectly entering data will also contribute quite a few. In addition, there will be many near-crosses where teams do not fully meet the criteria for crossing, or just barely scrape by and the referees don't see.

This will be one of the worst years to be a referee, it won't be quite as bad as 2014 though.

[SenorZ]

Visibility was low if Portcullis or Drawbridge/Sallyport were on both sets of outerworks.

Also, we had about 12 bricked radios at the SCRRF scrimmage. Someone didn't get firmware flash (or whatever they did) correct. Took a couple of hours to get all the radios re-flashed. Hope that doesn't happen again at regionals.

[alectronic]

Originally Posted by mwtidd

When refs miss defense crossings it's painful, especially with manipulated defenses.

You'll see here that a red portcullis crossing is missed.

But those aren't even refs, they're just random students?

[Dan Petrovic]

Originally Posted by alectronic

But those aren't even refs, they're just random students?

Precisely. The students handling the scoring were either freshmen or sophomores. Our head referee has refereeing experience, but he only has one set of eyes.

If teams are really that concerned with the accuracy of a pre-season scrimmage that is largely meaningless, then they can let me know in a PM and we'll see what we can do for future events.

The truth is that FIRST's goal with Week Zero is to test the scoring software and the logistics of the field and match flow. FIRST is not concerned with the accuracy of the results. They're concerned with making sure the software works and the game is played as intended. They look to us to fill in the gaps and those gaps are often filled by young students.

Official events will have more experienced volunteers. Scoring this game certainly won't be easy, but I'm willing to give the volunteers a bit more credit.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Dan Petrovic

Precisely. The students handling the scoring were either freshmen or sophomores. Our head referee has refereeing experience, but he only has one set of eyes.

If teams are really that concerned with the accuracy of a pre-season scrimmage that is largely meaningless, then they can let me know in a PM and we'll see what we can do for future events.[...]

Official events will have more experienced volunteers. Scoring this game certainly won't be easy, but I'm willing to give the volunteers a bit more credit.

Exactly. SCRRF Scrimmage only had one ref (me), and my basic function was to signal a crossing/goal shot--or call a foul if needed. I missed several crossings, partly because I was looking elsewhere. (Also, a number of teams crossed defenses for practice not for points.) We didn't even try to keep score, though occasionally I'd signal a damaged defense.

This is going to be an interesting game to officiate, no doubt about it.

[4404 PCH Colts]

It seems as though most alliances are focusing more on defenses and less on scoring. Do y'all think that this will lead to regionals saturated with breaches and only a couple tower captures? Also what about efficiency for low goal vs high goal if you are going to go for the capture in a regional qualification match?

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Dan Petrovic

I know that this can be frustrating, but please remember that these were among the first matches ever played on the Stronghold field and the scoring was being performed by young and inexperienced volunteers.

I wouldn't expect this type of thing to happen during official competitions.

Thanks for clarifying the situation Dan. I certainly don't expect it to be a common occurrence, but I wanted to call out that IF a crossing is missed the onus is on the teams to ensure the lights go to zero (by crossing again).

Also I want to say thanks to your team for putting on a great event. We had a blast this weekend.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by 4404 PCH Colts

It seems as though most alliances are focusing more on defenses and less on scoring. Do y'all think that this will lead to regionals saturated with breaches and only a couple tower captures? Also what about efficiency for low goal vs high goal if you are going to go for the capture in a regional qualification match?

I'm not sure I agree with this. My take is this is the first time teams were able to take to a full field, so they tested themselves on the things they can't necessarily test at home.

[Dan Petrovic]

Originally Posted by mwtidd

Thanks for clarifying the situation Dan. I certainly don't expect it to be a common occurrence, but I wanted to call out that IF a crossing is missed the onus is on the teams to ensure the lights go to zero (by crossing again).

Also I want to say thanks to your team for putting on a great event. We had a blast this weekend.

No problem. I apologize if I came off a little heated. In reality, teams SHOULD expect the scoring to be handled properly. It definitely makes a lot of sense to double-check with the lights before assuming you've crossed.

And I'm glad you enjoyed it. We have to make sure our long-time customers stay happy! We'd make the trip up to your off-season event in November if it didn't always fall on the same day as our FLL qualifier.

[Mastonevich]

I was not able to attend a week 0.

After actual use of the fields, FIRST provided or team built, was there any cycle time advantage to using the low bar? That seemed to be an often cited advantage of the low bar.