Is Defense Back in a Big (Bad) Way?

[Mr. Lim]

Just wondering how many teams out there have had a chance to simulate real-match quality defense yet?

Team 610 has been running Open Practice sessions for Toronto area teams for the past two weeks, and we've had the pleasure of having several teams run both with and against us.

This past weekend was the first time we felt the robot was "ready" to go up against near-competition-level defense. We had our good friends at 4476 match up against us, as well as our alumni driving our 2013 World Championship robot "Taz" on defense.

What we learned is that defense can be really effective this year, even to the point that it could negatively impact the enjoyment of the game - both to participants and spectators alike. I like defense in games, but this year seems to be on a higher tier than most.

I'm not one to make predictions, but I can see a savvy defense robot posting a disturbingly low GAA (Goals Against Average - for you hockey fans), especially during early week quals. I can see a robot like this shutting out all but the absolute best, elite level robots at a competition. Think: having a competition with 40 teams, and say only 4 of them can actually score any boulders if quality defense is played against them.

We often measure a robot/team's effectiveness by their net effect on score. Stopping the opponent from scoring points is just as impactful as scoring points for your own alliance. Seriously disrupting opposing boulder points from being scored seems... well... pretty easy.

Lastly, breaking defenses alone is proving to be very hard on the robots. When adding tough defense robots into the mix, I think a lot of teams will have difficulty keeping their robots functioning for an entire competition. This isn't the same kind of bumper-to-bumper contact we've seen in past games. Even with really good teams/drivers/robots, we had robots driving into/onto/over each other. So many drivetrains are built to tackle the tall and bumpy defenses, inadvertently driving over an opposing robot's bumpers and into their robot was definitely something that happened too often.

I'm a bit worried that small events might struggle to field a full complement of working robots for the elimination rounds. Robots with fully working drivetrains might be rare on the backend of the serpentine draft.

I'm a bit worried that boulder scores might be awkwardly low in any match where there's a defense robot - unless one of the elite teams is on the field.

Is anyone else as worried about defense as me? Or am I the only one?

[Jay O'Donnell]

You're not alone.

I think most events, up to and including the championship event, will be decided by being able to get low goal scored past the defense and keeping your robot from breaking.

I can say without question many events will have some limping robots by the time finals comes around.

[PayneTrain]

Shawn, you might have been simulating competition-quality defense (which no team ever does enough of... our brutish 2013 robot is going to be getting some extra miles these next few weeks from yours truly, I assure you) but can you say you were simulating any and all likely competition-quality courtyard scenarios?

[EricH]

You know, we all complained about the lack of defense last year.

So the GDC gave us defense AND DEFENSES. Two years worth of bumper rookies in one, two years worth of defense in one. I think this is going to be Breakaway levels of robot defense, sandwiched in between the Stronghold Defenses.


This one's gonna be interesting and crazy.

[IronicDeadBird]

I desperately hope teams have the mind to bring in a lot of replacement parts. Last year defense was complained about in the game that was pretty much player vs environment, now we have a year where its player vs player vs environment.

[mrnoble]

An overbuilt robot is a must this season. I agree strongly that teams (or even groups of students; this sport has a very short rotation of veterans after all) who only know last year will be punch drunk when they experience this year's game. I am very concerned about broken bots on the field and in the pits.

[jeremylee]

Since only one defender is allowed to guard thier castle, I think teamwork can help overcome this problem. But I agree with the comments about a rough game, the pits are going to be crazy busy this year.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by jeremylee

Since only one defender is allowed to guard thier castle, I think teamwork can help overcome this problem. But I agree with the comments about a rough game, the pits are going to be crazy busy this year.

Doesn't mean you can only defend from the castle though

[Edxu]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Shawn, you might have been simulating competition-quality defense (which no team ever does enough of... our brutish 2013 robot is going to be getting some extra miles these next few weeks from yours truly, I assure you) but can you say you were simulating any and all likely competition-quality courtyard scenarios?

We went through several scenarios that we worked out with other teams at our practice, including individual cycling and feeding cycles among other things.

The defensive robot mostly played zone denial upon entry of the attacker from neutral to courtyard, then tried to disrupt them from reaching their shooting position with a mixture of head-on pinning and t-boning. After the opponent makes their shot, the defensive robot then player denial again, disrupting the attacker from leaving the courtyard.

From standing behind the driver station on both sides (attacking and defending), I observed that the Middle Driver Station and Right Side Driver Station have absolutely no vision through the glass of the Secret Passage or the left-side goal when trying to play defense. Conversely from the Left Driver Station, the driver has little to no vision of the right-side goal and the spy area.

I think that strategy will make or break a team's offensive strategy this year, as without cameras, the defending robot is at a huge disadvantage, and if the defensive robot is known before the match begins, a strategy can be made to exploit it.

[PayneTrain]

I don't think you gave me the specific answer I was looking for, but that's ok.

I would definitely agree that use of cameras in this game is potentially part of the foundation for a good strategy. Teams should take any opportunities within the bounds of the rules and Q&A rulings to maximize vision for their drivers.

[waialua359]

An effective scoring robot capable of handling defense, is a robot that never has to fully go into the opponents courtyard (subject to defense) when scoring.

Shawn,
great thread.
This is 2010 all over again in a very big way.

[mjc49]

Originally Posted by waialua359

An effective scoring robot capable of handling defense, is a robot that never has to fully go into the opponents courtyard (subject to defense) when scoring.

Shawn,
great thread.
This is 2010 all over again in a very big way.

This is our teams take away from this past weekend as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing alliance strategies, both defensive and offensive.

[Sperkowsky]

we played some defense and got some defense played on us at the Suffield Shakedown. Defense is something that is really needed this year. You can destroy a high goal shooters chances with good defense.

Also warning to teams with those giant 12"+ wheels. Smaller robots will flip you. It may be an accident maybe not and it is a foul but beware.

[JamesCH95]

I am interested to see how the lack of 'tall' robots impacts defensive play this year. It strikes me that a box with a stick or a box with a wall will be a very effective non-chassis-contacting defensive robot.

It also seems likely that teams who can shoot from the nominal protection of the outer works will have significant protection from said short robots.

Originally Posted by waialua359

An effective scoring robot capable of handling defense, is a robot that never has to fully go into the opponents courtyard (subject to defense) when scoring.

Shawn,
great thread.
This is 2010 all over again in a very big way.

A lot of care must be taken in this strategy - if a robot releases control of a boulder and does not fully enter their opponents courtyard they will draw a foul. However, darting into the courtyard after the boulder has been shot should be quite easy.

[AdamHeard]

I hope it is.

RIP Low shooters w/o a plan for this.