Al's 2016 Inspection Thread

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Nate,
Think from the other side of the discussion...
"If I can't cover 8" from the corner than I don't have to use bumpers on that side."
That is one thing the GDC does not want. In the past this dimension has often been 6". This year due to the game, the dimension was changed to 8". In my opinion it is pretty obvious that was decided to give a greater challenge to designers.

Al,

I just checked the manuals from 2012 until now and they had the minimum set for 8". Maybe I'm missing what you are saying but it would appear this rule has been set like this for awhile.

[engunneer]

It's been 8" for a long time.

The other point trying to be made is that there is no configuration of a 16" or shorter side that doesn't require the entire side to be covered. It is the logical consequence of 8"from each corner needing covering. Another way to say it is that all frame sides greater than 16" require at least 16" of total bumper on that side in addition to the 8" from each corner.

The wording of the rule for "sides less than 8"" could also be written "sides less than 16"" without changing any actual bumper requirements.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

"Long time" is a relative term when you have been around since 1996. The rule was 6" in 2011.

[GeeTwo]

My understanding is that the "shorter than 8 inch" rule was placed there to explicitly allow sides shorter than 8 inches (and require that they have bumpers). Without this rule, you couldn't have a (for example) four-inch long side because you could not then put 8 inches of bumper extending from each corner without violating other bumper rules limiting extension of hard and soft parts away from the frame perimeter.

[Caleb Sykes]

I think that the manual needs to have more bumper pictures after R19. Particularly, it needs one showing a side that is less than 8" that has legal bumpers on it. The bottom right corner of robot C should also be split into a couple of pictures, because there is too much happening there right now to clearly see why specific aspects of that configuration are illegal.

Also, another term should be added to the glossary to differentiate what we conventionally think of as a "side" and a side as determined by the frame perimeter. Perhaps FRAME PERIMETER SIDE would suffice.

[gpetilli]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

I think that the manual needs to have more bumper pictures after R19. Particularly, it needs one showing a side that is less than 8" that has legal bumpers on it. The bottom right corner of robot C should also be split into a couple of pictures, because there is too much happening there right now to clearly see why specific aspects of that configuration are illegal.

Also, another term should be added to the glossary to differentiate what we conventionally think of as a "side" and a side as determined by the frame perimeter. Perhaps FRAME PERIMETER SIDE would suffice.

Maybe differentiate a side from a segment of a side (for sides with gaps)? Maybe outlaw circular bumpers and require "organic" convex perimeter shapes to be made from >8" segments of bumper with supporting 8" rigid frame? I vote for CONVEX PERIMETER to replace FRAME perimeter (which I believe is a major source of the confusion) Given the large number of redundant Q&A, the intent is clearly not easily conveyed.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

My understanding is that the "shorter than 8 inch" rule was placed there to explicitly allow sides shorter than 8 inches (and require that they have bumpers). Without this rule, you couldn't have a (for example) four-inch long side because you could not then put 8 inches of bumper extending from each corner without violating other bumper rules limiting extension of hard and soft parts away from the frame perimeter.

I liked the 2013 version of this rule (as clarified in a team update) that essentially said the required 8 inches wraps around the next corner for sides shorter than 8 inches (see attached image). It's the essentially same rule as this year's, but it would have stopped most of the BUMPER questions this season.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

OK, time for part 2 for those of you at your first event this weekend.
1. Pneumatics. Not much has changed here from previous years although there are a number of new devices that people will be using. Please remember that all pneumatic parts must be COTS in an unmodified state (except certain exclusions listed in R76). That means no painting!
2. You may not make your own pneumatic parts. That means you may not make an extendable arm using pressure inside a PVC pipe. While it maight be cool, it does not meet the rules.
3. One and only one compressor under RoboRio control. I know you think you have ways around this rule because "air is air". There is no way around this rule. The compressor can be on the robot or it can be off the robot. You can't charge your robot with one compressor and then have another compressor on the robot for the match. No shop compressors charging the system, no exceptions. No FRC legal compressor being run directly from a robot battery while you are in the queue to pre-charge your robot. No larger volume compressor being run from a car battery.
4. The tubing you use must be 0.160" maximum inside diameter. This is not a safety item, this is part of the restriction on max available power. Inspectors are being trained on how to recognize the larger tubing.
5. If you use pneumatics there are certain items that must be present. One of those is a Nason pressure switch, P/N SM-2B-115R/443. No others are allowed and this must not be modified in any way. (They aren't adjustable anyway)
6. When using pneumatics, you must have a calibrated Pressure relief valve connected via legal rigid fittings (e.g. brass, nylon, etc.). A calibrated valve will release air when the system stored pressure is above ~125 psi. These are very easy to calibrate, it requires two wrenches and an alligator clip. Loosen the locking ring on the valve (that is the little hex nut closest to the threaded portion of the valve). Short the pressure switch terminals with the clip and enable the robot. The compressor will run continuously. There is a small hole at the top of the valve. When system pressure reaches 125 psi, some air should be released from the small hole. If no air is present, turn the top hex fitting counter clockwise until air is released. If air is released at less than 125 psi, then turn the hex fitting clockwise to stop the release of air at less than 125 psi. When calibrated, hold the top hex fitting and tighten the locking nut. This is not a precise or repeatable calibration. A correctly calibrated valve will release air between 125 and 130 psi on a repeatable basis.
7. No White Clippard tanks P/N: AVT-PP-41). If you found tanks in your robot inventory and don't know if they are these tanks, just believe they are and get rid of them. The explosion hazard is well documented.
8. "Three way valves" are now legal. these are typically known as one way valves in that air moves in one direction and when released, the pressure flows through a third port to atmosphere.
9. Compressors get hot.Do not place wiring near the compressor be careful to keep pneumatic tubing away from the hot parts as well. Tubing will swell and then fail (with a loud pop) when heated and pressurized.
10. Don't modify pneumatic parts. I am restating this so you don't paint them, obscure part numbers, make scratches, dents or drill into them. You may not drill "lightening" holes in any pneumatic part. Do not drill out and tap cylinders to accept larger fittings. Do not add mounting holes and do not try to modify manifolds to get one more output port.

[marccenter]

Al,

Thanks for all your hard volunteer work for FRC!

I may have found a discrepancy in the Inspection Sheet regarding the Driver Station Number. The IS says 16.0.2 but the NI website only shows 16.1.0.

I am not in front on the control system at home so I cannot compare the numbers on the Driver Station but these don't look right.

I will attach a pdf.

[Mark McLeod]

The current version that will show on the Driver Station is 16.0.2
So that's what you will compare to when inspecting.

The label on the NI download is incorrect, but is the latest 16.0.2 version.

[marccenter]

Mark,

Thanks for checking up on this so quickly.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Marc,
The Inspection Checklist was updated when the software changed to be compatible.

Justin,
I believe those are the valves which prompted this change in the rules. Provided that they do not violate any other robot rules.

Although this is not an FRC endorsement, simply my opinion. The product line you point to from Automation Direct has some pretty cool stuff in it.

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by marccenter

Al,

Thanks for all your hard volunteer work for FRC!

I may have found a discrepancy in the Inspection Sheet regarding the Driver Station Number. The IS says 16.0.2 but the NI website only shows 16.1.0.

I am not in front on the control system at home so I cannot compare the numbers on the Driver Station but these don't look right.

I will attach a pdf.

Just to further clarify... Although the download from NI is named FRCUpdateSuite_2016.1.0.zip, once installed the software identifies itself as version 16.0.2 if you look at the display on the driver station.

[FrankJ]

Al could you comment on regulators? For the primary regulator

R77 I. Pressure regulators with a maximum outlet pressure of no more than 60 psi.

R82 “Working” air pressure on the ROBOT must be no greater than 60 psi and must be provided
through a single primary adjustable, relieving, pressure regulator.

(blue box)Norgren regulator P/N: R07-100-RNEA or Monnier P/N: 101-3002-1
recommended. (Blue Box)

Does that mean A)don't adjust the working pressure higher than 60 PSI or B) regulator capable of being set higher than 60 PSI are not legal. Keep in mind the KOP recommended regulator fits in group A but not group B.

This post is also relevant to the question.

As always thanks for you input.

[jwfoss]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

8. "Three way valves" are now legal. these are typically known as one way valves in that air moves in one direction and when released, the pressure flows through a third port to atmosphere.

Am I correct in my understanding that this valve or this valve meets those requirements?