Cheating in FRC

[george.tan]

Originally Posted by Coach Norm

+1

+1 for me too!

[abigailthefox]

Originally Posted by rich2202

There are ways to cheat, and there are ways to cheat.

I would wonder how blatant the violation is here.
Is the robot clearly out of the bag and being worked on/driven?
Was there a "strategic" hole in the bag to fix something broken?
Leaving more than the allowed weight out of bag?
We can't say for sure.

Most Chairman's submissions try to word things favorably, which I don't see as problematic.
Outright lying about outreach? I would say that's highly problematic.

But perhaps most troubling is the fact that this student felt so afraid to come out with this information.
This suggests, to me, an environment that isn't conducive to what FIRST is all about.
As does the fact that they pulled down the post immediately when another student (?) recognized it.
Clearly, whether or not the cheating is blatant, the environment and atmosphere of that team should be closely examined, by someone not involved in it.

Finally, I think that posting to CD was an appropriate response.
It was posted on Reddit looking for guidance, and removed because someone felt threatened, not because the issue was resolved.
CD is full of experienced FIRST students and mentors, and bringing it here is simply a way to bring it to light, allow it to be discussed by people who are familiar with the climate and goals of FIRST, and hopefully to allow it to reach the OP, or team members of the OP.

I highly advise the OP (if you're reading this) to take advantage of mentors who have offered you one on one assistance, talk to them, get some advice, and (hopefully) report this to FIRST.
FIRST should not be a place where an atmosphere of cheating is cultivated.

(OP, know that we're all here to support you--FRC should be fun, not threatening or uncomfortable. And if you resolve the issue, and (potentially) need help finding another team nearby, feel free to reach out, we will all do our best to help you achieve future success in FIRST!!)

[IronicDeadBird]

I'm concerned about why the post was taken down, if it was sorted out that is one thing, the alternatives are a bit darker. I really hope the OP steps forward and at least confirms they are alright with a few people and lets it diffuse a bit.

[gblake]

If this is real, the original person should contact FIRST.

Regardless, I recommend everyone else avoid the urge to become ersatz guardian angels, or internet vigilantes.

If this is real, if someone actually involved contacts FIRST, that will be enough to get it resolved.

If it turns out that I'm wrong, that will be a new conversation.

Correct?

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by gblake

If this is real, the original person should contact FIRST.

Regardless, I recommend everyone else avoid the urge to become ersatz guardian angels, or internet vigilantes.

If this is real, if someone actually involved contacts FIRST, that will be enough to get it resolved.

If it turns out that I'm wrong, that will be a new conversation.

Correct?

Sure, contacting FIRST might be what we would all want... But for someone afraid of blowback within their team and/ or school, it may not appear like an attractive choice. Receiving individual, directed mentoring and advice on the issue, being able to go back and forth with thoughts and talk about the issue is an improvement over the current situation, and could lead to better resolutions. In this case, I think we need to look at what's best for the student involved.

[gblake]

My advice is focused 100% on the student.

FIRST, once made aware of any allegations, by an anonymous report, by a reporter who asks to have their name kept secret, or by a reporter who wishes to be named; can discreetly investigate, and can use their influence to attempt to improve anything that needs to be improved.

If the people in FIRST (who I know care about students beyond just STEM inspiration) perceive a need to ask local administrators (or any other members of the local community) to keep an eye on things, I trust that they will discreetly do it.

On the other hand, we here can form rabbles, can reach ill-informed conclusions, can go off half-cocked, etc.

This sort of thing needs to be handled by people able to get to the truth of the matter, and able to be (physically) present for the long haul.

If that original report it's true, contact FIRST, and perhaps someone in the local administration/community. From them you can get improvements. From the Internet, you often get something else.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

This bothers me. My team does not lie to judges at all... We also work hard to be accurate in our assessments of our work and deeds for our Chairman's presentations.... You make it sound like we are at a serious competitive disadvantage for being honest.... I thought FIRST was supposed to be better than this?

I recognize that, with 3000 teams and tens (hundreds?) of thousands of participants and mentors, some folks will be a bit misguided. But to think that it's the "norm" does not sit well with me.

I don't think it really is the norm. I do think that teams with little experience may see the efforts they make as bigger than they really are. It is perfectly natural to be proud of accomplishments and to see them as awesome or amazing when, after seeing what others do, they are just average. Every team sees its robot as amazing and they should, it is only in the crucible of competition that teams can compare with other robots. Even then the natural tendency of a team is to only remember the good things. It is fitting to do that... we all do it.

When a team crosses the line and makes up things, or intentionally lies it is a different situation. I have been around many teams and I don't think our competition breeds this kind of behavior for the most part. I think that teams that do that usually give themselves away.

Your team should be justifiably proud of your accomplishments, NRG has a great team and the power and value of your team and your experiences and the effort that you make shines through in all you do. This honest pride is reflected in your chairman's group and your individual team members.

Teams without this honesty show a different kind of light. It is visible. This is the power of honesty in our society. It is a light and you can't imitate it or cheat your way into making believe that you have it.

Your team has the light. I have seen it... Don't worry that you are at a disadvantage. You have put yourself in a position of a great honest advantage by what you do and who you are. You are a success and you are already winners.

We hope to get a chance to work with you this year.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by gblake

My advice is focused 100% on the student.

FIRST, once made aware of any allegations, by an anonymous report, by a reporter who asks to have their name kept secret, or by a reporter who wishes to be named; can discreetly investigate, and can use their influence to attempt to improve anything that needs to be improved.

If the people in FIRST (who I know care about students beyond just STEM inspiration) perceive a need to ask local administrators (or any other members of the local community) to keep an eye on things, I trust that they will discreetly do it.

On the other hand, we here can form rabbles, can reach ill-informed conclusions, can go off half-cocked, etc.

This sort of thing needs to be handled by people able to get to the truth of the matter, and able to be (physically) present for the long haul.

If that original report it's true, contact FIRST, and perhaps someone in the local administration/community. From them you can get improvements. From the Internet, you often get something else.

And I'll reiterate.. If the student is comfortable going to FIRST (which the original post indicates), then why shouldn't we offer them an alternative that can help them? Why should we sit here and insist that they do something they aren't comfortable with, something that could lead to adverse consequences in their school or peer group?. Putting it out on a forum like this is a great way to get tons of non-specific and probably not very helpful advise. Going to a single trusted individual and having an in depth conversation, on the other hand, can provide the support and confirmation one needs to take things to the next level.