Palmetto Regional Week 0.5

[Catherine57]

That"s my question, too. Was it not a foul if you were shooting with your bumper in the outer works?

[jajabinx124]

Originally Posted by Catherine57

That"s my question, too. Was it not a foul if you were shooting with your bumper in the outer works?

As long as your robot is in contact with the opponents courtyard you can shoot. Rule G39: ROBOTS are prohibited from launching BOULDERS unless they are in contact with the opponent’s TOWER or carpet in the opponent’s COURTYARD, and not in contact with any other carpet.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by jajabinx124

As long as your robot is in contact with the opponents courtyard you can shoot. Rule G39: ROBOTS are prohibited from launching BOULDERS unless they are in contact with the opponent’s TOWER or carpet in the opponent’s COURTYARD, and not in contact with any other carpet.

Yes but the outerworks is not another carpet. If your robot is in your opponent's courtyard and your bumper is in the volume of the outerworks, you are supposed to be protected from opponent contact.

[jajabinx124]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

Yes but the outerworks is not another carpet. If your robot is in your opponent's courtyard and your bumper is in the volume of the outerworks, you are supposed to be protected from opponent contact.

That's what I was trying to say.. sorry if it was unclear

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

Yes but the outerworks is not another carpet. If your robot is in your opponent's courtyard and your bumper is in the volume of the outerworks, you are supposed to be protected from opponent contact.

I watched a lot of Palmetto since we compete next week, I saw ZERO bots taking shots from outer works (with bumpers hanging) at Palmetto. So I don't think the opportunity and/or desirability came up. Could be teams in practice found that long range of shot unreliable is my guess. Almost all shots were taken from batter or back a several feet except for the one bot that nailed shots in auto from spy position. The prime shot zone was from halfway in courtyard to batter.

I too went in thinking that a cross and immediate shoot might be the way to go..but it may not be a realistic way to go. We'll certainly practice it and find out. Hope we get the vision thing down certainly would help. Lots to consider.

My feeling is the action is chaotic and relying on a ref to call fouls is a dubious endeavor. Even from a discrete quantitative visual scouting standpoint its nearly impossible to keep track so much going on.

Since we didn't get a ton of shot practice going in we'll have to find what works when we get there we have the entire field to choose from. Hope to find a few sweet spots.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by jajabinx124

As long as your robot is in contact with the opponents courtyard you can shoot. Rule G39: ROBOTS are prohibited from launching BOULDERS unless they are in contact with the opponent’s TOWER or carpet in the opponent’s COURTYARD, and not in contact with any other carpet.

That's nice, but irrelevant to the question at hand. It is quite possible to be in a position to NOT violate G39, and still be under the protection of G43. G43 applies whenever your opponents' bumpers are within the Outer Works (read: Defenses and their ramps).

The question now becomes, were the referees assuming that using that area to shoot nullifies the traverse attempt? I could see that being the case, the way G43 is written. But I don't want to try to get into the refs' heads on that, so I'll stop there.

[jajabinx124]

Originally Posted by EricH

That's nice, but irrelevant to the question at hand. It is quite possible to be in a position to NOT violate G39, and still be under the protection of G43. G43 applies whenever your opponents' bumpers are within the Outer Works (read: Defenses and their ramps).

The question now becomes, were the referees assuming that using that area to shoot nullifies the traverse attempt? I could see that being the case, the way G43 is written. But I don't want to try to get into the refs' heads on that, so I'll stop there.

True. I didn't answer the previous question.

I think stopping and shooting would nullify the traverse attempt. Because to traverse means to move, pass, or go across. Say a robot is crossing a defense and stops with their bumpers hovering over the outerworks and then they shoot after they stop moving. Since they have stopped moving wouldn't it nullify it?

I'm not a 100% sure this is the best reasoning though.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by jajabinx124

True. I didn't answer the previous question.

I think stopping and shooting would nullify the traverse attempt. Because to traverse means to move, pass, or go across. Say a robot is crossing a defense and stops with their bumpers hovering over the outerworks. Since they have stopped moving wouldn't it nullify it?

I'm not a 100% sure this is the best reasoning though.

Traversing is defined as having your robot's bumpers in the volume of the outerworks. That is in the rules and has been clarified in the Q&A and team updates. At least from my point of view that doesn't really seem debatable. If it is then we built the wrong robot...

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

Traversing is defined as having your robot's bumpers in the volume of the outerworks. That is in the rules and has been clarified in the Q&A and team updates. At least from my point of view that doesn't really seem debatable. If it is then we built the wrong robot...

I see no rule violation crossing stopping (touching their courtyard) shooting then continuing the traversal. A traversal is not defined as a singular action without pause. I think "bumper hanging" shots will be allowed if you continue into the courtyard after. Would be most efficient scoring if a team can pull it off. Why go further and then backtrack in if you don't have to?

[jajabinx124]

Originally Posted by Boltman

I see no rule violation shooting then continuing the traversal. A traversal is not defined as a singular action without pause.

Yeah. If the Q&A clarifies it (I think I'm looking at the right questions).. then it should be legal unless they clarify/change it in the team updates.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by Boltman

I see no rule violation crossing stopping shooting then continuing the traversal. A traversal is not defined as a singular action without pause. I think "bumper hanging" shots will be allowed if you continue into the courtyard after.

By the definition of traversing, it should be allowed even if the robot doesn't finish going over. There are no rules forcing a robot to traverse if it ever started traversing. There are only rules protecting robots that are in the act of traversing.

[MARS_James]

Originally Posted by Boltman

I see no rule violation crossing stopping (touching their courtyard) shooting then continuing the traversal. A traversal is not defined as a singular action without pause. I think "bumper hanging" shots will be allowed if you continue into the courtyard after. Would be most efficient scoring if a team can pull it off. Why go further and then backtrack in if you don't have to?

This is the rule that makes it illegeal:

G40 A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s
COURTYARD unless:
A. the ROBOT contacts the BOULDER within OUTER WORKS, and
B. the ROBOT completes its CROSSING (e.g. doesn’t completely back out of the OUTER
WORKS into the NEUTRAL ZONE)

They then define crossing:
CROSS an act performed by a ROBOT, such that it starts free of contact with an opponent
DEFENSE and completely in the NEUTRAL ZONE, traverses the DEFENSE such that
its BUMPERS go fully between the adjacent SHIELDS/GUARDRAIL, and ends up fully
contained by the opponent’s COURTYARD

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by MARS_James

This is the rule that makes it illegeal:

G40 A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s
COURTYARD unless:
A. the ROBOT contacts the BOULDER within OUTER WORKS, and
B. the ROBOT completes its CROSSING (e.g. doesn’t completely back out of the OUTER
WORKS into the NEUTRAL ZONE)

They then define crossing:
CROSS an act performed by a ROBOT, such that it starts free of contact with an opponent
DEFENSE and completely in the NEUTRAL ZONE, traverses the DEFENSE such that
its BUMPERS go fully between the adjacent SHIELDS/GUARDRAIL, and ends up fully
contained by the opponent’s COURTYARD

The way I read that rule is you cannot lob boulders into courtyard or act as a defense conduit... If a bot crosses pauses and completes the shot and continues to traverse then the boulder was properly introduced was it not? The robot in my scenario would not back up but continue on ant the boulder in their courtyard at shot time.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by MARS_James

This is the rule that makes it illegeal:

G40 A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s
COURTYARD unless:
A. the ROBOT contacts the BOULDER within OUTER WORKS, and
B. the ROBOT completes its CROSSING (e.g. doesn’t completely back out of the OUTER
WORKS into the NEUTRAL ZONE)

They then define crossing:
CROSS an act performed by a ROBOT, such that it starts free of contact with an opponent
DEFENSE and completely in the NEUTRAL ZONE, traverses the DEFENSE such that
its BUMPERS go fully between the adjacent SHIELDS/GUARDRAIL, and ends up fully
contained by the opponent’s COURTYARD

If you look at the examples in the blue boxes, particularly example B, there is no requirement for the robot to remain in contact with the Boulder throughout the Crossing.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by EricH

If you look at the examples in the blue boxes, particularly example B, there is no requirement for the robot to remain in contact with the Boulder throughout the Crossing.

So Erich is it legal in your opinion like many of us envisioned to cross pause/shoot to then score both a HG and a successful cross in one action? (5 +5=10) then rinse repeat as long as we complete the crossing each time?

Cross...pause/shoot(bumper hang) ..continue into courtyard....exit...repeat

I have no delusions this is easy but do want to know if its an option to get those points/scoring moves efficiently as possible.