Palmetto Regional Week 0.5

[MARS_James]

Originally Posted by Landonh12

I'll watch the live stream.. Just interested to see a defensive bot do some work.

Watch any of Alliance 1s matches and see how important defense is, 1369 minotaur were amazing at defense and a perfect final bot for our alliance

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by MARS_James

Watch any of Alliance 1s matches and see how important defense is, 1369 minotaur were amazing at defense and a perfect final bot for our alliance

I agree I'm surprised they lasted until Pick 24 what happened with them breaking down? What was the mechanical issues your team had?

[SoccerTaco]

Originally Posted by jajabinx124

1296's robot started smoking twice during Palmetto eliminations.. so it seems like the smoke was coming from the 775 motors.

They really toasted them! I was up high in the cheap seats and could smell them.

1296 had a great bot and 3824 appreciates the opportunity to play on their alliance.

[Jetweb]

So its been a long day and now that were back at our hotel I will share some thoughts about the event. I was the drive coach for this event in place of Dan so I will try to hit most peoples questions.

Firstly, I want to thank our alliance partners 4451 and 1369 for being part of our alliance. We were expecting 4451 to be good and we were not disappointed and we couldn't have been luckier to get 1369 as our 3rd pick who came with a purpose built defense mechanism.

A couple of notes about the matches and conditions of the game:

• The balls were in decent condition throughout the event, and the field crew was good about replacing balls when significant damage was brought to there attention.
• Billfred did a great job with the defense selection process throughout the event. During qualifying our experience was smooth. The rules with selecting defenses during elimination matches are a little confusing as they do a new audience selection between rounds so your expected to have a representative choose your defenses, get your robot on the field, and be ready to start the match simultaneously which is difficult for everyone but the field crew understood and gave everyone enough time to tether and set up.
• The steel defense are brutal on your robot, much more so than the wood team versions.
• The ranking point for defeating the defenses every match of qualifying can't be overlooked.
• Defense is real and finding safe places to shoot or being able to shoot while being pushed will get more and more important as the events go on. The outer works was not a "safe" zone at this event.

For anyone interested in our robot specifically, we had a number of technical issues to work on throughout the event, mostly with our vision tracking, so we feel that there is lots of room for improvement throughout the season. There was a few things mechanically knocked lose by driving over the defenses. If you forgot to use locking fasteners or locktite ANYTHING this game will find it.

Overall we had a great time at Palmetto and were thrilled to have qualified for championships after missing out last year with the help of our amazing partners. Were looking forward to the rest of the season and seeing how the game develops.

Anyone with specific questions let me know and I will answer what I can.

[Keefe2471]

Originally Posted by Jetweb

• Defense is real and finding safe places to shoot or being able to shoot while being pushed will get more and more important as the events go on. The outer works was not a "safe" zone at this event.

First of all, congrats on the win! Very cool robot and the hanging and auto every round really looked cool. Do you think the lack of safe zone was a lack of knowledge by the referees and a mistake? I was under the impression that having your bumpers over the defenses was the only requirement to qualify as "traversing" and while you were traversing you were safe. It will be a very different type of competition than I thought it would be if no one is safe while they shoot.

Thanks.

[Catherine57]

That"s my question, too. Was it not a foul if you were shooting with your bumper in the outer works?

[jajabinx124]

Originally Posted by Catherine57

That"s my question, too. Was it not a foul if you were shooting with your bumper in the outer works?

As long as your robot is in contact with the opponents courtyard you can shoot. Rule G39: ROBOTS are prohibited from launching BOULDERS unless they are in contact with the opponent’s TOWER or carpet in the opponent’s COURTYARD, and not in contact with any other carpet.

[Ken Streeter]

Originally Posted by Keefe2471

First of all, congrats on the win!

Agreed! Just watched the 179 reveal video and loved the wheeled shooter including a turret. We considered doing that this year but didn't think we could do that and still get under the low bar. The "Swamp Thing" managed to do it very effectively -- well done!

Originally Posted by Keefe2471

Do you think the lack of safe zone was a lack of knowledge by the referees and a mistake? I was under the impression that having your bumpers over the defenses was the only requirement to qualify as "traversing" and while you were traversing you were safe.

We've been operating under the above understanding, too -- if the "shooting" robot has backed away from the tower so that a bumper is over the ramp to the defenses, then for a defender to interfere with that robot should be a foul, at least from our understanding of G43.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by jajabinx124

As long as your robot is in contact with the opponents courtyard you can shoot. Rule G39: ROBOTS are prohibited from launching BOULDERS unless they are in contact with the opponent’s TOWER or carpet in the opponent’s COURTYARD, and not in contact with any other carpet.

Yes but the outerworks is not another carpet. If your robot is in your opponent's courtyard and your bumper is in the volume of the outerworks, you are supposed to be protected from opponent contact.

[jajabinx124]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

Yes but the outerworks is not another carpet. If your robot is in your opponent's courtyard and your bumper is in the volume of the outerworks, you are supposed to be protected from opponent contact.

That's what I was trying to say.. sorry if it was unclear

[EricH]

Originally Posted by jajabinx124

As long as your robot is in contact with the opponents courtyard you can shoot. Rule G39: ROBOTS are prohibited from launching BOULDERS unless they are in contact with the opponent’s TOWER or carpet in the opponent’s COURTYARD, and not in contact with any other carpet.

That's nice, but irrelevant to the question at hand. It is quite possible to be in a position to NOT violate G39, and still be under the protection of G43. G43 applies whenever your opponents' bumpers are within the Outer Works (read: Defenses and their ramps).

The question now becomes, were the referees assuming that using that area to shoot nullifies the traverse attempt? I could see that being the case, the way G43 is written. But I don't want to try to get into the refs' heads on that, so I'll stop there.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

Yes but the outerworks is not another carpet. If your robot is in your opponent's courtyard and your bumper is in the volume of the outerworks, you are supposed to be protected from opponent contact.

I watched a lot of Palmetto since we compete next week, I saw ZERO bots taking shots from outer works (with bumpers hanging) at Palmetto. So I don't think the opportunity and/or desirability came up. Could be teams in practice found that long range of shot unreliable is my guess. Almost all shots were taken from batter or back a several feet except for the one bot that nailed shots in auto from spy position. The prime shot zone was from halfway in courtyard to batter.

I too went in thinking that a cross and immediate shoot might be the way to go..but it may not be a realistic way to go. We'll certainly practice it and find out. Hope we get the vision thing down certainly would help. Lots to consider.

My feeling is the action is chaotic and relying on a ref to call fouls is a dubious endeavor. Even from a discrete quantitative visual scouting standpoint its nearly impossible to keep track so much going on.

Since we didn't get a ton of shot practice going in we'll have to find what works when we get there we have the entire field to choose from. Hope to find a few sweet spots.

[jajabinx124]

Originally Posted by EricH

That's nice, but irrelevant to the question at hand. It is quite possible to be in a position to NOT violate G39, and still be under the protection of G43. G43 applies whenever your opponents' bumpers are within the Outer Works (read: Defenses and their ramps).

The question now becomes, were the referees assuming that using that area to shoot nullifies the traverse attempt? I could see that being the case, the way G43 is written. But I don't want to try to get into the refs' heads on that, so I'll stop there.

True. I didn't answer the previous question.

I think stopping and shooting would nullify the traverse attempt. Because to traverse means to move, pass, or go across. Say a robot is crossing a defense and stops with their bumpers hovering over the outerworks and then they shoot after they stop moving. Since they have stopped moving wouldn't it nullify it?

I'm not a 100% sure this is the best reasoning though.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by jajabinx124

True. I didn't answer the previous question.

I think stopping and shooting would nullify the traverse attempt. Because to traverse means to move, pass, or go across. Say a robot is crossing a defense and stops with their bumpers hovering over the outerworks. Since they have stopped moving wouldn't it nullify it?

I'm not a 100% sure this is the best reasoning though.

Traversing is defined as having your robot's bumpers in the volume of the outerworks. That is in the rules and has been clarified in the Q&A and team updates. At least from my point of view that doesn't really seem debatable. If it is then we built the wrong robot...

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

Traversing is defined as having your robot's bumpers in the volume of the outerworks. That is in the rules and has been clarified in the Q&A and team updates. At least from my point of view that doesn't really seem debatable. If it is then we built the wrong robot...

I see no rule violation crossing stopping (touching their courtyard) shooting then continuing the traversal. A traversal is not defined as a singular action without pause. I think "bumper hanging" shots will be allowed if you continue into the courtyard after. Would be most efficient scoring if a team can pull it off. Why go further and then backtrack in if you don't have to?