pic: Growth of FIRST in Michigan

[cbale2000]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I don't speak for Matt, but I think we both learned something from seeing you all started at $24k and are down to 15-17k. What kind of fundraising do/did you take into consideration? Does it pool from sources similar to those teams could use?

Thankfully Midland is home to Dow Chemical, who generously sponsors our District Event, our parent organization FIRST of the Great Lakes Bay Region, and a number of area FRC teams (including the event Host teams) through our parent organization.

We've also gotten additional funding from Nexteer Automotive (which also sponsors a number of area teams directly), Dow Corning, Hemlock Semiconductor, and a handful of other sponsors.

Our specific relationship with our sponsors varies; some companies allocate funds that are specifically for the district and separate from funds they allocate for teams. Some sponsors prefer to sponsor just the event itself, for various reasons. And finally some sponsors simply donate money to FIRST of the Great Lakes Bay Region and allow us to allocate it wherever it's needed (for the event, teams, or otherwise).

[Jim Zondag]

Joe,
Thanks for sharing my graph to all.
The key to the growth of FIRST hinges on 2 things.
1. Reducing participation costs
2. Increasing Return on Investment.

When we recreated the District System 8 years ago, these were our objectives and these have never changed.
The growth that that you see is a direct product of accomplishing these two goals. We are not done, we are just getting started.
We work to reduce event and operating costs wherever possible.
We use the money we save to help fund initiation costs for new teams and sustainability grants for existing teams.
We have worked with our state government to secure over $7Million in grants.
Many teams in our state play their entire season without ever paying any registration fees.
We have proven beyond any doubt that reducing costs will dramatically increase growth in FRC.
However, our cost reductions are artificial. We are offsetting the high cost of FIRST's enrollment fees with government money. In the grand scheme of things this is not sustainable. If administrations change, if the economy shifts, these grants may go away.

So the real question is: If FIRST really wants growth, as Dean repeatedly says they do, and they have real proof of what cost reduction can do to fuel growth, then why do they not ACTUALLY reduce program enrollment costs?
After 25years, and 100X growth in scale, there is still no price break from HQ.

We at FiM operate on a thin operating budget.
Our total operating costs are less than $1000/team/year.
FIRSTs costs are about 10 times this much, despite the fact that a significant portion of the league are now in Districts and these events are not financed by FIRST anymore.

If we ever want Robotics to be a sport in its own right, program enrollment costs must come down. Other leagues understand this. FIRST still apparently does not.

"It is not the idea......It's the execution."

[BenGuy]

Originally Posted by AGPapa

I see how districts keep the cost down for FiM, but how do they keep them down for teams? Doesn't each team still have to pay the $5,000 registration fee? If Michigan teams are paying less, it's because the government is paying for them.

The costs are kept down when making it to states and worlds. That's where the grants really kick in, they pay for both states and worlds registration fees, assuming you make it there.

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

how much does the average event cost?

When we looked at hosting a Westside event, we were told to expect at least $15-20k. $25k if you wanted to play it safe or have anything above and beyond the normal district event.

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by BenGuy

The costs are kept down when making it to states and worlds. That's where the grants really kick in, they pay for both states and worlds registration fees, assuming you make it there.

*If the team comes from a public school.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

When we looked at hosting a Westside event, we were told to expect at least $15-20k. $25k if you wanted to play it safe or have anything above and beyond the normal district event.

You're saying that's for startup or year over year?

[cbale2000]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

You're saying that's for startup or year over year?

I'm pretty sure that's just an estimated cost range provided by FiM. We got a similar estimate our first year, and then we had to work out what our actual recurring costs would be for our specific event. It's more a fundraising target than anything else.

Costs for specific districts vary due to a variety of factors.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by cbale2000

I'm pretty sure that's just an estimated cost range provided by FiM. We got a similar estimate our first year, and then we had to work out what our actual recurring costs would be for our specific event. It's more a fundraising target than anything else.

Costs for specific districts vary due to a variety of factors.

I understand that costs are different, just trying to get at what he means. Type of venue, geography, amenities built into the facility vs what the event itself would have to cover (specifically, power) are just some of all variables that contribute to the cost.

[Jim Zondag]

Our average district event cost is about $18,000.
Several of our events get sponsors from local businesses and have zero net cost to our FIRSTinMichigan Organization.

[cbale2000]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I understand that costs are different, just trying to get at what he means. Type of venue, geography, amenities built into the facility vs what the event itself would have to cover (specifically, power) are just some of all variables that contribute to the cost.

Right, but what I'm saying is the estimate they got was likely generic and not tailored to their location.

That said, I can provide a few examples of costs associated with events (Dollar values listed are approximate and specific to our event in Midland. Actual costs will vary by event):

Recurring Costs:

• Pipe and Drape (for dividing pits, blocking off the field area from the stands, etc.)
  - $1600
• Table & Chair rentals (for team pits, field equipment, pit admin, etc.)
  - $500
• Multimedia Equipment (Projector(s), audio mixer, speakers, mics, radios, etc.)
  - $2750
• Generator for pits (Cost to rent if you don't have one, and cost of fuel)
  - No cost for us, school district has a generator and donates fuel
• Cost of DJ (unless role is filled by a volunteer)
  - $500
• Cost of food for volunteers
  - $3850
• Cost of Janitorial services and event Security
  - $250 for security, janitorial services donated by school district
• Gaffers Tape
  - $650

One Time Costs:

• Installing Ethernet runs for field and pits (if needed)
  - $1600
• Floor Tarps if not already owned by venue, and Masonite (may have to be replaced every few years due to degradation)
  - $3250

And those are just some of the basics; there are, of course, also extras that events may opt to buy. For example, after our first district event we decided to build our own livestream system for streaming events and running the event projector, and more recently, we purchased our own sound equipment so we didn't have to rent it (we looked at getting a projector too but the cost was a bit high for what was required). We probably have over $10,000 that we put into multimedia alone over the past few years just to go above and beyond event basics.

[MrBasse]

What cbale said is pretty right on. We have a very up to date gym as it was just built six years ago. We also have two more gyms to hold pits and practice fields.
The 15-25k target was a rough estimate, we were told we could probably come in cheaper because certain infrastructure was already in place. I was just starting to look into detailed costs when we were told that we would no longer be able to host unless it was a week one event. This was after Bag day and all our facilities were already reserved by then.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by Jim Zondag

Joe,
Thanks for sharing my graph to all.
<snip>

Jim,
I was an idiot not to include that I got this chart from you. Sorry about that. Glad you are not upset that I shared it. There was another thread that talked about MO going to districts and I wanted to get the chart online someplace that I could link to it from within a message, so why not upload it to CD?

I didn't think that this would then start its own thread. But it did and that turned out to be good too.

Thanks for adding your perspective on this. I know that a lot of people think that MI is an anomaly because of the Auto Industry. And, yes, that helps but honestly, most of the growth is coming from places that have more in common with the more rural areas of NY, WI or WA than they do with Metro Detroit.

There is nothing I know of in the MI experience that could not be duplicated in dozens of other states.

Joe J.

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

...There is nothing I know of in the MI experience that could not be duplicated in dozens of other states...

You would have to duplicate at least one Gail Alpert, and I don't know if that is possible just yet. She has more drive and passion for spreading FIRST than anyone I know. Though, I'm sure you could find someone that is near her level if you look good and hard.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

You would have to duplicate at least one Gail Alpert, and I don't know if that is possible just yet. She has more drive and passion for spreading FIRST than anyone I know. Though, I'm sure you could find someone that is near her level if you look good and hard.

This is truth. I refer to Gail Alpert as the "Super RD", even if she isn't actually an RD.

When I hear about the all the great work Gail and FiM are doing, I feel like we're living in the dark ages over here in CA (and that's not just because our game is medieval themed this year!)

Great work Gail, Jim and the whole FiM crew. I wish certain individuals in our community would celebrate FiM's excellence, rather than diminish it or write it off!

-Mike

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Jim Zondag

So the real question is: If FIRST really wants growth, as Dean repeatedly says they do, and they have real proof of what cost reduction can do to fuel growth, then why do they not ACTUALLY reduce program enrollment costs?
...
FIRSTs costs are about 10 times this much, despite the fact that a significant portion of the league are now in Districts and these events are not financed by FIRST anymore.

Zondag asking the real questions here. I'd love to read a Frank's blog on this one...