Team Update 14 (2016)

[mr.roboto2826]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

It is however a decent indication that if 973 can build a semi competitive clone in a day, a much more average team should be able to do it in a few weeks?

2826 did a copy of 2013 254, which was (lets be honest here) a ridiculously complex robot. I dunno what timeline that was, but probably a bunch of time.

Plenty of teams already don't reveal anything until they absolutely have to keep their competitive edge. eg 1114, 2056, 2826?, 1678? I'm sure there are others, and for 2826 and 1678, I don't actually know those are mostly guesses in general they tease/reveal later in the season. Not that I don't understand the reasoning behind it and see how it's advantageous, it's just that I really enjoy seeing the robots in a polished way like 118 and so many other teams that put out videos earlier. Removing bag day I think would cause more teams to do this.

Copying is smart. Why re-invent the wheel? I just don't love the secretive nature culture that results from it, and I would prefer FRC not to be like this.

I guess I'll chime in since I was one of the people involved with that robot. That robot was inspired by 254 yes, but mostly just the climber. In fact that robot was 33, 341, and 254 all thrown together with a 2826 twist. We did in fact copy, and yes it is smart. But I would never do that again, much less in 4 weeks (yes 4 weeks from start of design to competing at iri). The most important thing we learned however is what we were capable of. We saw what these other guys were doing and figured out how to do it ourselves.

And in regards to the "secretive nature culture", I can't count the number of times teams like 1114, 254, 118 and so on have been open to explaining their designs. Thats why Wave is at where we are today, because these teams were open, and gracious to show us everything they had!

[KevinG]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Currently teams are allowed to play on the practice field or regulation field during their designated practice matches without passing inspection. At the risk of some additional paperwork, what if inspection were split into two parts?

• Pre-inspection would only include major safety items, such as sharp or otherwise unsafe parts, insulated connections, no electrical connection to frame, many if not all of the pneumatics rules, and probably a few others.
• Full inspection would begin with or build on on pre-inspection and also include wiring details, final weigh-in, bumper rules, frame perimeter measurement

A robot must pass pre-inspection to power up on the practice fields or for scheduled practice matches, and both pre-inspection and full inspection for the filler line or competition matches. Only one pre-inspected or fully inspected robot allowed per team.

I would be worried about the paperwork and also keeping track of everything, but it might be viable. The front of the inspection sheet could be used to handle safety and critical features, while the rear of the inspection should could be used to handle game-related requirements.

I would consider bumper rules to be a safety/critical feature, as I would not want a robot with illegal bumpers interacting with other teams.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by mr.roboto2826

I guess I'll chime in since I was one of the people involved with that robot. That robot was inspired by 254 yes, but mostly just the climber. In fact that robot was 33, 341, and 254 all thrown together with a 2826 twist. We did in fact copy, and yes it is smart. But I would never do that again, much less in 4 weeks (yes 4 weeks from start of design to competing at iri). The most important thing we learned however is what we were capable of. We saw what these other guys were doing and figured out how to do it ourselves.

And in regards to the "secretive nature culture", I can't count the number of times teams like 1114, 254, 118 and so on have been open to explaining their designs. Thats why Wave is at where we are today, because these teams were open, and gracious to show us everything they had!

I don't think that's what he meant about secrecy. He is saying that if teams don't think copying is a big deal, why don't the big teams reveal at bag day or even earlier. I'm sure every team has their reasons but if you asked some of the teams you mentioned or other teams of the same caliber to explain their designs before they revealed it, I would guess you get a different response.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

I don't think that's what he meant about secrecy. He is saying that if teams don't think copying is a big deal, why don't the big teams reveal at bag day or even earlier. I'm sure every team has their reasons but if you asked any of the teams you mentioned to explain their designs before they revealed it, I would guess you get a different response.

Pretty much yes, now of course there are other factors like finishing the robot is more important than making a video. (probably the most common reason) Was just stating that some teams intentionally hold off on their reveals till later to maintain a competitive edge. (which is smart)

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

I don't think that's what he meant about secrecy. He is saying that if teams don't think copying is a big deal, why don't the big teams reveal at bag day or even earlier. I'm sure every team has their reasons but if you asked any of the teams you mentioned to explain their designs before they revealed it, I would guess you get a different response.

We don't publicly show our robot, but we show it to our friends on other teams no problem, and that sharing goes both ways for the most part.

We also don't really ever get done in time to have a release video in a "normal" time.

We had the robot fully done in CAD the Saturday before bag day this year. It was assembled as much as possible at 11:50 pm on Bag night. The programmers had it for 5 min to do a quick systems test and then we weighed it and threw it in a bag.

Our release videos are done with our practice robot.