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Unread 07-03-2016, 07:42
fergie fergie is offline
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Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Our team was at Kettering for the first week of competition. During our tie-breaker match for the semi-finals we lost 111-115.

This score did not include a clear foul that was given by the ref on the far side of the field for what it looks like on video as a 5 sec defense on our alliance robot
Please see the video at 8:14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFjxp-Vj1qs

We all, half of the crowd, questioned this?? We asked why the foul points were not given?? Their answer is that they gave us strength in our tower.

What I question is looking very long and hard I could not find that they can only give us strength only. I seen that a Foul is 5 points and a Tech Foul is 5 points + a tower increase??? If the foul given would have been awarded in 5 points we would have advanced to the finals.

Maybe someone else can help me out so we understand going further into our competitions.

Thanks!
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:05
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

A foul (if indeed that's what it was) should award the other team +5 points.

But as unfortunate as losing a high-stakes game is, this weekend a friend of mine lost her brother, another friend her husband, and yet another his mom. While it may be disheartening, frustrating, aggravating, even enraging, there is nothing even remotely "tragic" about a blown call or a missed assignment of points.
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:06
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Anthony Galea Anthony Galea is offline
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

IIRC, there was a thread about this, and the foul gave your alliance scale points, and it was the correct call.
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:18
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
G28 During the final twenty (20) seconds of TELEOP, ROBOTS in their COURTYARD may not contact an opponent ROBOT, regardless of who initiates the contact.
Violation: The contacted ROBOT is considered to have SCALED an open side of the TOWER at the end of the MATCH.
Look at the end result. Your alliance only had 1 robot on the batter. That is 5 points. Your alliance got an extra 15 points in scaling for the foul. They referees followed the rule correctly.
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:20
fergie fergie is offline
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

pfreivald - as what you have mentioned those are TRULY TRAGIC; and I am sure in my post I didn't say anything that would diminish those. For this occurrence it was a more tense problem that could possibly cause one not to qualify for states and more. Some Seniors on our team who have worked hard all year for years would deem this a bit tragic! Maybe Monday Mornings are not a happy time for you?

3175student17- you are correct that is what they said they had done--however I am looking for clarification where it states that in the rules??
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:21
Boltman Boltman is offline
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
Originally Posted by fergie View Post
Our team was at Kettering for the first week of competition. During our tie-breaker match for the semi-finals we lost 111-115.

This score did not include a clear foul that was given by the ref on the far side of the field for what it looks like on video as a 5 sec defense on our alliance robot
Please see the video at 8:14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFjxp-Vj1qs

We all, half of the crowd, questioned this?? We asked why the foul points were not given?? Their answer is that they gave us strength in our tower.

What I question is looking very long and hard I could not find that they can only give us strength only. I seen that a Foul is 5 points and a Tech Foul is 5 points + a tower increase??? If the foul given would have been awarded in 5 points we would have advanced to the finals.

Maybe someone else can help me out so we understand going further into our competitions.

Thanks!
I don't think from the video it was for a 5 sec pin.

I think it may be for .....
G28 During the final twenty (20) seconds of TELEOP, ROBOTS in their COURTYARD may not contact
an opponent ROBOT, regardless of who initiates the contact.
Violation: The contacted ROBOT is considered to have SCALED an open side of the TOWER at the
end of the MATCH.

Teams are encouraged to consider rule G11 when developing their
strategies, such as attempting to draw violations of this rule.
The ARENA will play a warning sound when thirty (30) seconds remain
in TELEOP as a reminder that violations for this rule will soon be
enforced. When twenty (20) seconds remain in TELEOP, an additional
sound will be played.

It happened at :19 so your received a SCALE and extra 15 IF the penalty stood.

The BLUE robot did not heed th 30 second warning and violated your "attempt to scale" at 19.

Which it appears they did (but why the extra tower strength? too)
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Last edited by Boltman : 07-03-2016 at 08:27.
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:22
Anthony Galea's Avatar
Anthony Galea Anthony Galea is offline
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
Originally Posted by fergie View Post
pfreivald - as what you have mentioned those are TRULY TRAGIC; and I am sure in my post I didn't say anything that would diminish those. For this occurrence it was a more tense problem that could possibly cause one not to qualify for states and more. Some Seniors on our team who have worked hard all year for years would deem this a bit tragic! Maybe Monday Mornings are not a happy time for you?

3175student17- you are correct that is what they said they had done--however I am looking for clarification where it states that in the rules??
Take a look at G28:

Quote:
During the final twenty (20) seconds of TELEOP, ROBOTS in their COURTYARD may not contact
an opponent ROBOT, regardless of who initiates the contact.
Violation: The contacted ROBOT is considered to have SCALED an open side of the TOWER at the
end of the MATCH.
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:29
fergie fergie is offline
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltman View Post
I don't think from the video it was for a 5 sec pin.

I think it may be for .....
G28 During the final twenty (20) seconds of TELEOP, ROBOTS in their COURTYARD may not contact
an opponent ROBOT, regardless of who initiates the contact.
Violation: The contacted ROBOT is considered to have SCALED an open side of the TOWER at the
end of the MATCH.

Teams are encouraged to consider rule G11 when developing their
strategies, such as attempting to draw violations of this rule.
The ARENA will play a warning sound when thirty (30) seconds remain
in TELEOP as a reminder that violations for this rule will soon be
enforced. When twenty (20) seconds remain in TELEOP, an additional
sound will be played.



It happened at :19 so your should have been awarded a SCALE and extra 15 IF the penalty stood.

The BLUE robot did not heed th 30 second warning and violated your "attempt to scale" at 19.

They awarded a tower point , instead they should have awarded your bot a SCALE

Which it appears they did (but why the extra tower strength? too)
Thanks for much for the clarification. They had told us they gave us points for the tower strength, per a student who asked; but obviously he misunderstood and should have said that they gave us points for scaling the tower!

As in the past we have our students talk and communicate with refs and staff if they have any questions and we HOPE they remember what they said so we can better understand
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:30
fergie fergie is offline
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3175student17 View Post
Take a look at G28:
Thanks Anthony...totally clear now and thanks so much for helping clarify!
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Unread 07-03-2016, 08:49
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
Originally Posted by fergie View Post
Maybe Monday Mornings are not a happy time for you?
Not this Monday in particular, no--and on any given day I have a pretty low tolerance for melodrama.

Given that you were awarded the 15 points, and that this had been pointed out elsewhere already, I'm rolling my eyes even harder at the word choice.
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Unread 07-03-2016, 10:01
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3175student17 View Post
IIRC, there was a thread about this, and the foul gave your alliance scale points, and it was the correct call.
There was a similar thread, but not about this event.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=145303
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Unread 07-03-2016, 11:16
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Hey 5114,

Once again, THANK YOU and 5150 for the opportunity to be seeded with you as the #1 Alliance for the playoffs.

I had posted about our match yesterday, but as you are seeing the bashing and posts about being overly dramatic and to lighten up about the call made me just go ahead and delete the thread all together. I don't think those people being rude understand the complete details of what we were told versus what really happened. If it had been explained to us correctly in the first place, it would not have ever been even posted.

They are correct it was a G28 violation NOT a G22 foul. While not everyone was rude on my post and answered our concerns, which I greatly appreciated, a lot were. The purpose of CD I thought was to get answers and clarification, but this has left a bad taste in my mouth. Too bad the "gracious professionalism" isn't carried through even on this site by all users.

Again,

Thank you for choosing us as a part of your alliance. And, our experience forever more will be one of our teams most memorable events!

Good Luck with all of your future matches, and we'll be watching!
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Unread 07-03-2016, 12:24
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Team 5234,

Please know that we are really, REALLY happy with the Kettering U event, refs, volunteers and all that was at the event. We are gracious that 5150 picked us up and that they and us saw vision in your bot capabilities through the fog you were experiencing with the incorrect IP address and no robot control for your first 7-8 events that day!

Please don't let a few bad apples here deter you from seeking information here. I chose to come here to ask because I wasn't finding all that I needed to get my facts straight. The individuals that guided me was super helpful for our team and who knows how many more on scoring and fouls.

Basically if you can't help with a question or clarification DON'T RESPOND and MOVE ON!!

Hope you have a great rest of the year at your events and this game is all that we were hoping for from the last year games for sure!!!!!
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Unread 07-03-2016, 13:55
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
Originally Posted by fergie View Post
Basically if you can't help with a question or clarification DON'T RESPOND and MOVE ON!!
I wish to help with a clarification on what's going on here.

Your wording ("tragic occurrence") is over the top, and seems chosen to draw criticism. It did exactly that. Your joke about Patrick's situation was completely uncalled for. Hopefully you'll learn more appropriate ways to express yourself in public as you grow.

Please take this as not as an attack, but as an attempt to help you more suitably project an attitude of professionalism. If everyone merely moved on when they had a chance to offer guidance, the mission of FIRST would not be furthered.
The mission of FIRST is to inspire young people to be science and technology leaders, by engaging them in exciting Mentor-based programs that build science, engineering, and technology skills, that inspire innovation, and that foster well-rounded life capabilities including self-confidence, communication, and leadership.
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Unread 07-03-2016, 14:16
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Re: Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson View Post
I wish to help with a clarification on what's going on here.

Your wording ("tragic occurrence") is over the top, and seems chosen to draw criticism. It did exactly that. Your joke about Patrick's situation was completely uncalled for. Hopefully you'll learn more appropriate ways to express yourself in public as you grow.

Please take this as not as an attack, but as an attempt to help you more suitably project an attitude of professionalism. If everyone merely moved on when they had a chance to offer guidance, the mission of FIRST would not be furthered.
The mission of FIRST is to inspire young people to be science and technology leaders, by engaging them in exciting Mentor-based programs that build science, engineering, and technology skills, that inspire innovation, and that foster well-rounded life capabilities including self-confidence, communication, and leadership.
I fail to see how Patrick's first post is even relevant or appropriate here. The argument of "you shouldn't be sad because someone else is sadder" is as illogical as the equivalent "you shouldn't be happy because someone else is happier".

While I am very sorry for Patrick's loss, I am quite interested in seeing the justification for going off-topic and nitpicking the word choice of someone who just wants some input.
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