Removal of Low Bar Fabric

[Hallry]

They removed the fabric earlier today at the Mt. Olive MAR District Event.

[Kristian Calhoun]

Hatboro-Horsham is having a Tim Gunn make it work moment sewing new panels.

[BBaltrusch]

5 regionals and 12 districts ran in week 0.5 and 1. There have been literally thousands of low bar crossings, and only a tiny minority of these caused fabric damage. I haven't looked that close at the robots that broke the bar, or if the same ones are doing it repeatedly, I'm sure the event staff know. This really seems like an inspection issue more than anything else. There's another thread about all the broken rules that aren't being penalized. At Lake Superior some fabric was ripped early on, but wasn't a problem the rest of the event. Not sure if the offending robots were fixed or the bumper fabric curtains were strong enough.

G12 The following actions are prohibited with regards to interaction with ARENA elements (items A-E
exclude any DEFENSE, RUNGS, and BOULDERS)
A. Grabbing
B. Grasping
C. Attaching to (including the use of hook-and-loop tape against the FIELD carpet)
D. Grappling
E. Hanging
F. Becoming entangled
G. Damaging
Violation: FOUL. If the Head REFEREE determines that further damage is likely to occur, offending ROBOT will be DISABLED. Corrective action (such as eliminating sharp edges, removing the damaging MECHANISM, and/or re-Inspection) may be required before the ROBOT will be allowed to compete in subsequent MATCHES

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by BBaltrusch

5 regionals and 12 districts ran in week 0.5 and 1. There have been literally thousands of low bar crossings, and only a tiny minority of these caused fabric damage. I haven't looked that close at the robots that broke the bar, or if the same ones are doing it repeatedly, I'm sure the event staff know. This really seems like an inspection issue more than anything else. There's another thread about all the broken rules that aren't being penalized. At Lake Superior some fabric was ripped early on, but wasn't a problem the rest of the event. Not sure if the offending robots were fixed or the bumper fabric curtains were strong enough.

G12 The following actions are prohibited with regards to interaction with ARENA elements (items A-E
exclude any DEFENSE, RUNGS, and BOULDERS)
A. Grabbing
B. Grasping
C. Attaching to (including the use of hook-and-loop tape against the FIELD carpet)
D. Grappling
E. Hanging
F. Becoming entangled
G. Damaging
Violation: FOUL. If the Head REFEREE determines that further damage is likely to occur, offending ROBOT will be DISABLED. Corrective action (such as eliminating sharp edges, removing the damaging MECHANISM, and/or re-Inspection) may be required before the ROBOT will be allowed to compete in subsequent MATCHES

The new flaps were far more durable than the initial ones. Perhaps the biggest issue is that each field only had 3 flaps to begin with - two on the field and one more on the practice field. If you looked at LSR matches, we ripped two of them in half in the first 3 matches on Friday. Yes, the offending robots immediately had an inspector in their pit helping the team's correct it, but by that time the damage had already been done.

The problem with the low bar and robots isn't necessarily sharp edges. Teams have all sort of collectors sitting in front of their ROBOT as they go through the flap. Combine that with the bar sewn into the bottom of the flap and it's real easy to get caught and pull on it heavily. The fabric just isn't strong enough to withstand the forces involved after it gets a couple of small holes or cuts in it.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by Hallry

They removed the fabric earlier today at the Mt. Olive MAR District Event.

The fabric was added back onto the Low Bars this morning.

[GaryVoshol]

Southfield (FiM) had to resort to the "Toronto rule" Friday afternoon. By that time the curtains were more tape than fabric.

We received an overnight shipment from FIRST of new material Saturday morning. The second match of the day, the fabric split at least halfway across its length. I watched it happen. It was not cut by a sharp object, it split when a blunt object hit it with force.

The inspector double checked robots on Friday for sharp edges, and helped a few teams add some foam padding. So there was probably some narrower leading points that may have cut the fabric on Friday. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't something that would have been disallowed on a robot for being sharp. The fabric just wasn't strong enough to take any kind of a beating, either from sharp or blunt edges.

[nedwards28]

PNW West valley removed fabric after this. Whoopsies

[An Outlier]

The Granite State event just adopted the same field update.

[hdurpos]

Originally Posted by nedwards28

PNW West valley removed fabric after this. Whoopsies

Yes, west valley removed the fabric from the low bar right after we had successfully "impaled" the low bar fabric...

[MrRoboSteve]

Designs like this, that have low forward facing surface area and contact the fabric above the pipe, are much more likely to rip the low bar fabric and trigger a G12 violation.

[Monochron]

NC District event replaced the fabric with what looked like a huge sheet of duct tape the same size as the fabric. No more entanglement issues and it still stopped balls just as easily.

[wjordan]

I don't think Northern VA ever used the fabric below the bar, based upon the matches I saw .

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

And this is why you should always place class A/C in position 2 when you want to win the match.

No no - you should always put the drawbridge in slot 2.

The REAL "10th" defense was when someone stuck a drawbridge in front of me as I ref'ed the OUTER WORKS position this weekend. It would easily make me guess which defenses were crossed in positions 3-5, especially if there were things like bumpers not leaving the zone elsewhere in the outer works.

While I 2nd-guessed and corrected myself, I was bound to miss more crossings (one non-impactful low bar crossing in particular). When viewed from the side, the draw bridge has the greatest cross-section, so it's more likely than the portcullis to assist with this effect.

Originally Posted by wjordan

I don't think Northern VA ever used the fabric below the bar, based upon the matches I saw .

Yep - GaCo ripped one in practice, then it was determined that there were plenty of other robots which would also do it as well based upon how they crossed the low bar. At first we thought we'd put it in during Finals, but then they decided not to.

[arizonafoxx]

Originally Posted by Monochron

NC District event replaced the fabric with what looked like a huge sheet of duct tape the same size as the fabric. No more entanglement issues and it still stopped balls just as easily.

I liked the flaps they installed at NC. They were basically layered duct tape (maybe gorilla tape). The nice part was they still flexed like the cloth flaps. After the fix they lasted the rest of the competition including elims where robots were running into them at high speeds. I am hoping that the duct tape design is carried through to the rest of the NC competitions.

[Dezion]

Originally Posted by arizonafoxx

I liked the flaps they installed at NC. They were basically layered duct tape (maybe gorilla tape). The nice part was they still flexed like the cloth flaps. After the fix they lasted the rest of the competition including elims where robots were running into them at high speeds. I am hoping that the duct tape design is carried through to the rest of the NC competitions.

Of the Low Bar substitutes I have seen, this one probably worked the best and is still very simple. Also, they installed the new ones very fast. I don't know the exact number of matches the flap was out, but our team only played one match without the low bar flap.