Need Clarification on Foul Points-possible tragic occurrence happened??

[indieFan]

Originally Posted by Ozuru

I fail to see how Patrick's first post is even relevant or appropriate here. The argument of "you shouldn't be sad because someone else is sadder" is as illogical as the equivalent "you shouldn't be happy because someone else is happier".

While I am very sorry for Patrick's loss, I am quite interested in seeing the justification for going off-topic and nitpicking the word choice of someone who just wants some input.

The argument was not that "you shouldn't be sad because someone else is sadder [sic]." The argument is that the word "tragic" was erroneously used in this instance.

Per Webster.com (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tragic), the simple definitions are:

: causing strong feelings of sadness usually because someone has died in a way that seems very shocking, unfair, etc.

: involving very sad or serious topics : of or relating to tragedy

Per the same link, the full definitions are:

1: of, marked by, or expressive of tragedy <the tragic significance of the atomic bomb — H. S. Truman>

2 a : dealing with or treated in tragedy <the tragic hero>
b : appropriate to or typical of tragedy

3 a : regrettably serious or unpleasant : deplorable, lamentable <a tragic mistake>
b : marked by a sense of tragedy

Nowhere do the definitions even come close to describing the issue of foul points as "tragic".

Sorry for continuing to hijack this thread.

[mrnoble]

The thread was hijacked by its title. Having been through difficult losses in playoffs, including robots torn in half, I'd say "tragic" is not the right term for anything robot related, barring a very serious accident involving a person (which thankfully hasn't occurred so far this season, though the child who made it into the field could have been one). Sorry to be pedantic, but there it is.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by indieFan

The argument was not that "you shouldn't be sad because someone else is sadder [sic]." The argument is that the word "tragic" was erroneously used in this instance.

Per Webster.com (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tragic), the simple definitions are:

: causing strong feelings of sadness usually because someone has died in a way that seems very shocking, unfair, etc.

: involving very sad or serious topics : of or relating to tragedy

Per the same link, the full definitions are:

1: of, marked by, or expressive of tragedy <the tragic significance of the atomic bomb — H. S. Truman>

2 a : dealing with or treated in tragedy <the tragic hero>
b : appropriate to or typical of tragedy

3 a : regrettably serious or unpleasant : deplorable, lamentable <a tragic mistake>
b : marked by a sense of tragedy

Nowhere do the definitions even come close to describing the issue of foul points as "tragic".

Sorry for continuing to hijack this thread.

I think what he was getting at was different. Okay so lets continue this situation. What if I go and say...

"Patrick I know you had a few people die but that isn't tragic. Did you hear about the bubonic plague now thats tragic."

Isn't that out of line? Isn't using a dictionary definition to invalidate someone elses feelings and make them look (frankly petty) something that we don't want to be okay in the CD community?

I'm going to get so much heat for this I already know...

[Arhowk]

Keep in mind you guys also had atleast thirty people screaming at the head referee for about ten minutes when you weren't even supposed to be able to

As a process improvement, in this year’s REFEREE training we
instructed them to not record details about FOULS and TECHNICAL
FOULS; as a result, we don’t expect REFEREES to recall details about
what FOULS or TECHNICAL FOULS were made, when they occurred,
and against whom.
The goal is to increase consistency across events while enabling and
empowering REFEREES to focus on the play on the FIELD (instead
of worrying about keeping detailed records during the MATCH). Any
reasonable question is fair game in the Question Box, and Head
REFEREES will do good faith efforts to provide helpful feedback (e.g.
how/why certain FOULS are being called, why a particular ROBOT may
be susceptible to certain FOULS based on its design or game play,
how specific rules are being called or interpreted), but please know that
they will likely not be able to supply specific details.

You guys still put up a good fight and a good performance at your succeeding events will probably book a ticket to States so it is nothing to lose sleep over.

[fergie]

Thanks for the coming into to defend my opening subject line.

If I offend anybody with the word "tragic" do not take offense. Simply move on.

Being as I was an ER AND ICU nurse for 12 years plus worked in an ambulance I can better judge tragic than even Webster himself.
That being said--
I am unsure about the yelling and would profusely apologize if anybody on my team reacted that way. As my family was leaving we were able to personally acknowledge and congratulate the winners. I truly felt we had a winning time and all around wonderful experience for all.

As stated previously I needed clarification because of what I was being told by a student the explanation he was given by the ref still did not make sense to me. After the above clarified it now it is crystal clear.

Thanks to all who has been very helpful and informative.

Have a great week.

[fergie]

And per Webster I will use "tragic" per the 3 b definition

[indieFan]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

I think what he was getting at was different. Okay so lets continue this situation. What if I go and say...

"Patrick I know you had a few people die but that isn't tragic. Did you hear about the bubonic plague now thats tragic."

Isn't that out of line? Isn't using a dictionary definition to invalidate someone elses feelings and make them look (frankly petty) something that we don't want to be okay in the CD community?

I'm going to get so much heat for this I already know...

I never invalidated his feelings of sadness. Using a dictionary definition to try and inform everyone as to how the term is supposed to be used is not an attempt at invalidation. It's an attempt at correction.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by indieFan

I never invalidated his feelings of sadness. Using a dictionary definition to try and inform everyone as to how the term is supposed to be used is not an attempt at invalidation. It's an attempt at correction.

Never said that you did I said is disregarding someones problem over improper use of a word out of line.

[pfreivald]

My post wasn't helpful? I said in it that if it were a foul as you claimed, then you should have gotten +5 points. Turns out it wasn't a foul per se, and you got the +15 scaling points, and this had been pointed out prior to your making this thread, all of which makes the claim of a "possible tragic occurrence" even less appropriate.

Word choice matters; phrasing matters. If you want to be taken seriously, be mindful of both the connotation and the denotation of the words you use, how you use them, and in what context.

[As an aside, I'm almost impossible to offend and certainly wasn't offended in this case, not even by your downright callous joke about Mondays not being my thing.

But were I, nobody gets to say "if you were offended, don't be"--because you don't get to dictate what emotional reactions other people have.

Your choice at that point is how (and whether) to deal with the fact that they are offended/upset/what-have-you. (Anything from ignoring it to laughing at it to empathizing but doubling-down to apologizing are all actually possible, while making them non-offended/upset/what-have-you isn't, unless you have a mind-control ray and/or a time machine.)]

[Taylor]

I feel this thread has run its course, and then some. Can we get some closure on this, pun intended?