Go to Post We considered naming our 2014 robot "Please Don't Point it at Me". I think the name fits. - KosmicKhaos [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2016, 19:36
Daynater Daynater is offline
Team Googler/Chief Delphier
FRC #4132 (Scotbots)
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11
Daynater is an unknown quantity at this point
climbing over robots?

I was looking in the manual, and i did not see anything right off the bat that would suggest that climbing over other robots (assuming no damage was done) was illegal. Is this true, as long as the contact time is 5 seconds or less? I am wondering, as at our first event, there were several times where it could have been done.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2016, 19:42
Hitchhiker 42's Avatar
Hitchhiker 42 Hitchhiker 42 is offline
Roboter
AKA: Mark Lavrentyev
FRC #4557 (FullMetal Falcons)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Cromwell, CT
Posts: 471
Hitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to behold
Re: climbing over robots?

During our Waterbury event, one of our alliance members was stuck on the moat. We tried to push them off, but ended up climbing on top of them. The refs were fine with it. However, this was our own alliance, so I'm not sure what the rule would be with the opposing teams.
__________________



2016 - NE District Championship Entrepreneurship Award
2016 - Hartford District Industrial Design Award
2016 - Waterbury District Engineering Inspiration Award
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2016, 20:17
whitetail's Avatar
whitetail whitetail is offline
Registered User
FRC #5407 (Wolf Pack)
Team Role: Operator
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 48
whitetail is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: climbing over robots?

This happen to us when we got stuck in the moat and our alliance member tried to get us out and ended up on top of us. We didn't get a penalty and neither robot got damaged. I think if the opposing alliance got on top of you it would be because of illegal gameplay.
__________________
FRC Team 5407 -Driver, Programmer and Head Control Systems Engineer
2015 MAR Championship Rookie All Star Award
2015 MAR Hatboro-Horsham District Rookie All Star Award
2015 MAR Hatboro-Horsham District event Winner(Thanks 2590, 2607)
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2016, 20:39
Edxu's Avatar
Edxu Edxu is offline
Strategy/Scouting Mentor
AKA: Edwin Xu
FRC #4476 (W.A.F.F.L.E.S Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 188
Edxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud ofEdxu has much to be proud of
Re: climbing over robots?

I looked into a few possible violations.

G19-1: I was looking into the definition of bumper zone, as my concern is that if you're on top of another robot, you may be out of the bumper zone. After taking a look, I didn't find any issues, as the Bumper Zone is measured when the robot is transposed onto a flat surface.

You could also consider G24, as climbing over a robot could be interpreted as entangling or attaching, without considering damage dealt to the opposing robot. If you end up damaging them at all, you'll be assessed a red card.

Other than that, I don't see any real issues.
__________________
2013 FRC World Champions (1477, 1241, 610)
Queens University Computing Class of 2020


2013-2016: Team 610
2017-????: Team 4476
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2016, 22:38
Hitchhiker 42's Avatar
Hitchhiker 42 Hitchhiker 42 is offline
Roboter
AKA: Mark Lavrentyev
FRC #4557 (FullMetal Falcons)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Cromwell, CT
Posts: 471
Hitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to beholdHitchhiker 42 is a splendid one to behold
Re: climbing over robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edxu View Post
If you end up damaging them at all, you'll be assessed a red card.
Don't risk it. It's not worth it.
__________________



2016 - NE District Championship Entrepreneurship Award
2016 - Hartford District Industrial Design Award
2016 - Waterbury District Engineering Inspiration Award
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2016, 22:42
Pratik Kunapuli's Avatar
Pratik Kunapuli Pratik Kunapuli is offline
Probably browning-out on Astro-Turf
FRC #1648 (G3 Robotics)(EWCP)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 143
Pratik Kunapuli is a name known to allPratik Kunapuli is a name known to allPratik Kunapuli is a name known to allPratik Kunapuli is a name known to allPratik Kunapuli is a name known to allPratik Kunapuli is a name known to all
Re: climbing over robots?

Blue box of G24:
Quote:
Initiating deliberate or damaging contact with an opponent ROBOT on or inside the vertical extension of its FRAME PERIMETER is not allowed.
__________________
Official Driving Record: 101-59-0
2012-2015 Student 341 Miss Daisy
2015-Current Mentor 1648 G3 Robotics
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 00:15
Procolsaurus's Avatar
Procolsaurus Procolsaurus is offline
Registered User
AKA: Robert Pond
FRC #4118 (Roaring Riptide)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Gainesville
Posts: 81
Procolsaurus is just really niceProcolsaurus is just really niceProcolsaurus is just really niceProcolsaurus is just really niceProcolsaurus is just really nice
Re: climbing over robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratik Kunapuli View Post
Initiating deliberate or damaging contact with an opponent ROBOT on or inside the vertical extension of its FRAME PERIMETER is not allowed.
I always think it is funny that you only get penalties for damaging your opponents, destroying an ally by falling on them from a tower (or pyramid) results in penalty free match.
__________________
2011-2012 Team 180 student
2014-Now Team 4118 College Mentor
2014 Referee, 3 events
2015 Field Reset, Referee, Scorekeeper
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 00:18
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,726
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: climbing over robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Procolsaurus View Post
I always think it is funny that you only get penalties for damaging your opponents, destroying an ally by falling on them from a tower (or pyramid) results in penalty free match.
I can see why it's not a penalty.

The damage you may or may not cause to your alliance partner, yourself, and/or your alliance's chance of winning the match is its own penalty. Therefore, you have been penalized enough, and need no further penalty.


Or, to put it another way: That's your alliance's problem, now isn't it?
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 08:15
ToddF's Avatar
ToddF ToddF is offline
mechanical engineer
AKA: Todd Ferrante
FRC #2363 (Triple Helix)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 593
ToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond reputeToddF has a reputation beyond repute
Re: climbing over robots?

In one of our qualification matches our radio-crio cable came loose when we hit the moat, to cross it for the breach. We died in the worse possible place. Our alliance partner, 1418 attempted to push us over the moat, but we didn't quite make it. They backed off and opened the sally port door for 4538 to drive through, but at that point 4538 was dead also. We told 1418 to do whatever it took to get us out of the way and get the breach. They pushed us over the moat, but our bumper still didn't clear the ramp. They then drove up over the moat, over our bot, and headed for the batter. Unfortunately, doing so dislodged their bumper. (Ripped the wood screws clean out) They managed to actually make it onto the batter before being disabled. At that point, their bot coasted back off the batter, and we lost 47 to 50, rather than winning 52 to 50.

The two lost ranking points did not effect us, as we still ended up as first seed captain. But, they made a huge difference to 1418 (who lost two points, ranking 11, with 21 points) and 623 (on the red alliance, who gained two points, ranking 4, with 27 points). If it had gone the other way, the 4 point swing would have put dropped 623 from 4th to 7th, and 1418 would have moved from 11th to 8th seed.

Such are the fortunes of battle, in this game of Stronghold, where the smallest factors may swing entire outcomes. As it was, 1418 was our first pick, and our alliance (including 2421) went on to win the event.
__________________
Todd F.
mentor, FIRST team 2363, Triple Helix
Photo gallery
video channel
Triple Helix mobile
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 09:42
fergie fergie is offline
Registered User
FRC #5114
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13
fergie is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: climbing over robots?

In our semi-finals an opposing robot rammed and climbed up into our intake and bent the bar in a total "V" shape. We had to hack saw and replace AND take a time out while the other robot didn't get penalized at all.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 10:01
pfreivald's Avatar
pfreivald pfreivald is offline
Registered User
AKA: Patrick Freivald
FRC #1551 (The Grapes of Wrath)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Naples, NY
Posts: 2,295
pfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond repute
Re: climbing over robots?

There are years where we've played very hard defense, but always try to stop short of tipping robots or driving over the top of them. (Most of the time they'd be driving over the top of us, via defense-initiated contact.)

We've never been issued a penalty for such rough play, though we absolutely always tried to remedy the situation without damaging or tipping our opponent's bots (and (a) we've never deliberately tipped a robot and (b) to my knowledge we've never damaged a robot via driving partially on top of them.)
__________________
Patrick Freivald -- Mentor
Team 1551
"The Grapes of Wrath"
Bausch & Lomb, PTC Corporation, and Naples High School

I write books, too!
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 10:03
Ari423's Avatar
Ari423 Ari423 is offline
LabVIEW aficionado and robot addict
AKA: The guy with the yellow hat
FRC #5987 (Galaxia)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 540
Ari423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant future
Re: climbing over robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fergie View Post
In our semi-finals an opposing robot rammed and climbed up into our intake and bent the bar in a total "V" shape. We had to hack saw and replace AND take a time out while the other robot didn't get penalized at all.
Unless it was done to intentionally damage your robot, that is not illegal. If you read the rules, there is nothing preventing robots from interacting with parts of your robot outside your frame perimeter. Any arm or whatever that extends outside the frame perimeter and is not built robust enough to take hits from an opposing robot is your own fault.
__________________
2017-present: Mentor FRC 5987
2017-present: CSA for FIRST in Israel
2012-2016: Member FRC 423
2013: Programmer
2014: Head Programmer, Wiring
2015: Head Programmer, Wiring
2016: Captain, Head Programmer, Wiring, Manipulator, Chassis, CAD, Business, Outreach (basically everything)


  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 10:32
fergie fergie is offline
Registered User
FRC #5114
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13
fergie is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: climbing over robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari423 View Post
Unless it was done to intentionally damage your robot, that is not illegal. If you read the rules, there is nothing preventing robots from interacting with parts of your robot outside your frame perimeter. Any arm or whatever that extends outside the frame perimeter and is not built robust enough to take hits from an opposing robot is your own fault.
Our intake was up inside our robot. Theirs rammed and climbed at such force it caused the V bend. It wasn't malicious but they were on top of us for a bit before we were separated. Full throttle hitting impact may not be the best way to defend. Our shooter was unable to work due to the bend bar.
We were prepared as we knew this was going to be one Dukes of Hazard type of game and brought all the possible part spares we could but happening in the semis was just like---Dang-it
Still--I would take this game 10x over last years!!!
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 10:36
Ari423's Avatar
Ari423 Ari423 is offline
LabVIEW aficionado and robot addict
AKA: The guy with the yellow hat
FRC #5987 (Galaxia)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 540
Ari423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant futureAri423 has a brilliant future
Re: climbing over robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fergie View Post
Our intake was up inside our robot. Theirs rammed and climbed at such force it caused the V bend. It wasn't malicious but they were on top of us for a bit before we were separated. Full throttle hitting impact may not be the best way to defend. Our shooter was unable to work due to the bend bar.
We were prepared as we knew this was going to be one Dukes of Hazard type of game and brought all the possible part spares we could but happening in the semis was just like---Dang-it
Still--I would take this game 10x over last years!!!
I take it back if your arm was inside your robot. That should be illegal according to G24.
__________________
2017-present: Mentor FRC 5987
2017-present: CSA for FIRST in Israel
2012-2016: Member FRC 423
2013: Programmer
2014: Head Programmer, Wiring
2015: Head Programmer, Wiring
2016: Captain, Head Programmer, Wiring, Manipulator, Chassis, CAD, Business, Outreach (basically everything)


Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi