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Unread 08-03-2016, 02:32
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by Valkonn View Post
Jesus christ.... please have mercy on the central valley....
I kinda think that 254, 1671 and 973 won't be too intimidated...
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Unread 08-03-2016, 08:19
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by Chak View Post
Now imagine if you had two robots like this on one alliance! 60 point auto, not even counting the third robot, so potentially 70 or 80 point. In addition, the 4 balls scored in auto and the minimum 3 balls starting in the castle means that the opposing HP is forced to release at least 1 ball at the beginning of tele-op. At that moment, all opposing robots will be on the other end of the field, allowing this ridiculously overpowered alliance to grab the boulders off the secret passage without interference. This alliance would have a HUGE lead in points and cycle time!

Maybe I will to see this at IRI or on the Einstein field. One can hope...

To make this possible, one of the autonomous routines must be performed on a non-low bar defense. 1678, your move.
Pretty sure low bar is a necessity to pull it off (talk about auto traffic jam) ..doubt two robots pull that move off consitently but who knows. I think the single boulder possession rule make this nearly impossible.
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  #78   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 09:03
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by Boltman View Post
Pretty sure low bar is a necessity to pull it off (talk about auto traffic jam) ..doubt two robots pull that move off consitently but who knows. I think the single boulder possession rule make this nearly impossible.
It seems possible (though extremely hard) to do it with any other defense, except maybe the ramparts. I doubt it will happen before Einstein, if at all, though.
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Unread 08-03-2016, 09:39
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by axiomofdarkness View Post
It seems possible (though extremely hard) to do it with any other defense, except maybe the ramparts. I doubt it will happen before Einstein, if at all, though.

Only thing that cancels ONE successful 2 ball auto (20 besides the cross) are 2 scaling bots (20 extra) so if 1678 pulls this off of the other alliances better find some scalers against them or 1678 better snatch up some scalers as captain..just sayin'

I think 1678 just made scaling bots top of peoples pick lists to defeat that alliance

20 points per match is 4 HG or 4 2x crosses or breach/capture...its huge

3 scalers are 1 HG better than 1 2-ball auto

Most everyone can cross in eliminations.
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Last edited by Boltman : 08-03-2016 at 09:47.
  #80   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 10:09
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by Boltman View Post
Only thing that cancels ONE successful 2 ball auto (20 besides the cross) are 2 scaling bots (20 extra) so if 1678 pulls this off of the other alliances better find some scalers against them or 1678 better snatch up some scalers as captain..just sayin'

I think 1678 just made scaling bots top of peoples pick lists to defeat that alliance

20 points per match is 4 HG or 4 2x crosses or breach/capture...its huge

3 scalers are 1 HG better than 1 2-ball auto

Most everyone can cross in eliminations.
You (generally) want to maximize non-excludable points per robot per alliance in any case - these robots are no more or less valuable than they were before. You always wanted the points. I'm not picking a hanger specifically over an otherwise higher scoring shooter just because of 1678's auton (though this is admittedly a contrived situation).
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  #81   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 11:03
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltman View Post
Only thing that cancels ONE successful 2 ball auto (20 besides the cross) are 2 scaling bots (20 extra) so if 1678 pulls this off of the other alliances better find some scalers against them or 1678 better snatch up some scalers as captain..just sayin'

I think 1678 just made scaling bots top of peoples pick lists to defeat that alliance

20 points per match is 4 HG or 4 2x crosses or breach/capture...its huge

3 scalers are 1 HG better than 1 2-ball auto

Most everyone can cross in eliminations.

However the 2 ball auto also lowers the tower by 2 points.
Plus whatever your alliance members put up in auto.
Which will make it easier in tele-op to achieve a capture.

Scaling might offset the two ball in terms of points, but a two ball auto still is the stronger strategy IMHO.
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  #82   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 11:40
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by steelerborn View Post
Scaling might offset the two ball in terms of points, but a two ball auto still is the stronger strategy IMHO.
Two ball autos can be pretty easily blocked though, while scales can not.
  #83   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 11:46
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes View Post
Two ball autos can be pretty easily blocked though, while scales can not.
Explain? Seeing as you can't cross the midline, it is pretty hard to stop a two ball auto. The only way you could do it is a canburglar-esque race to the center ball, but seeing as they immediately intake the midline ball without moving, it seems pretty unlikely that you will be blocked.
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  #84   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2016, 11:47
AlexanderTheOK AlexanderTheOK is offline
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes View Post
Two ball autos can be pretty easily blocked though, while scales can not.
Well for one if you attempted to block an auton at all you would be on the wrong side of the field, which is illegal.
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Unread 08-03-2016, 11:58
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon5817 View Post
Explain? Seeing as you can't cross the midline, it is pretty hard to stop a two ball auto. The only way you could do it is a canburglar-esque race to the center ball, but seeing as they immediately intake the midline ball without moving, it seems pretty unlikely that you will be blocked.
Just start without a ball and have your intake ready to grab the ball as soon as the match starts. 1678 has to drop their ball first, so it would be relatively straightforward to beat them to the center ball.

There are more complicated 2-ball autos that could avoid being blocked, but considering we went through week 1 without any 2-balls at all, we probably won't see hardly any two ball routines more advanced than 1678's.
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Unread 08-03-2016, 12:02
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes View Post
Just start without a ball and have your intake ready to grab the ball as soon as the match starts. 1678 has to drop their ball first, so it would be relatively straightforward to beat them to the center ball.

There are more complicated 2-ball autos that could avoid being blocked, but considering we went through week 1 without any 2-balls at all, we probably won't see hardly any two ball routines more advanced than 1678's.
Thanks great idea..almost like can wars fastest intake wins.... ours is really fast (Fastest at SD)
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Last edited by Boltman : 08-03-2016 at 13:43.
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Unread 08-03-2016, 12:11
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes View Post
Just start without a ball and have your intake ready to grab the ball as soon as the match starts. 1678 has to drop their ball first, so it would be relatively straightforward to beat them to the center ball.

There are more complicated 2-ball autos that could avoid being blocked, but considering we went through week 1 without any 2-balls at all, we probably won't see hardly any two ball routines more advanced than 1678's.

It still requires a specialized auto mode, where you're lined up against the secret passage rather than a defense. So either your entire auto mode is preventing a two ball auto (the 1-ball will still work), or you're coming up with a much more complicated (read: more likely to fail) auto mode.

Yes, you can TECHNICALLY defend a 2-ball auto, but I don't believe the tradeoffs are worth it.
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Unread 08-03-2016, 12:18
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by Smitty1707 View Post
It still requires a specialized auto mode, where you're lined up against the secret passage rather than a defense. So either your entire auto mode is preventing a two ball auto (the 1-ball will still work), or you're coming up with a much more complicated (read: more likely to fail) auto mode.

Yes, you can TECHNICALLY defend a 2-ball auto, but I don't believe the tradeoffs are worth it.
Who says you can't still cross after doing this?

We plan to have such an automode ready for champs.
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Unread 08-03-2016, 12:21
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
Who says you can't still cross after doing this?

We plan to have such an automode ready for champs.
Nothing says you can't. It's just more complicated than it initially sounds if you're not thinking about field configuration.
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Unread 08-03-2016, 12:24
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Re: 1678 Two Ball Auto

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Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
Who says you can't still cross after doing this?

We plan to have such an automode ready for champs.
Looks like we'll have to add our surgical tubing powered, 1" diameter carbon fiber arms to grab the ball at 120mph

I'm getting flashbacks to 2015, the horror!

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