Reality of low-bar shooters

[mentos54]

(Basing any conclusions on data from this post)

Throughout build season, there were many predictions that low-bar robots which cycled quickly to score balls, followed by a capture, would be a common and high-scoring design. However, it looks like the highest success rate was 9% during a given competition.

Does this mean a lot of low-bar bots failed to achieve what they attempted? And if so, do you think this will be changed as the season progresses?

Or, was CD wrong, with a large portion of First teams going for a breaching bot instead of the low-bar bot?

(Note: It could just be that this small sampling didn't have many of those bots, and the percentages will vary greatly with each weekend)

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by mentos54

(Basing any conclusions on data from this post)

Throughout build season, there were many predictions that low-bar robots which cycled quickly to score balls, followed by a capture, would be a common and high-scoring design. However, it looks like the highest success rate was 9% during a given competition.

Does this mean a lot of low-bar bots failed to achieve what they attempted? And if so, do you think this will be changed as the season progresses?

Or, was CD wrong, with a large portion of First teams going for a breaching bot instead of the low-bar bot?

(Note: It could just be that this small sampling didn't have many of those bots, and the percentages will vary greatly with each weekend)

We've only seen one week of competition, and when you evaluate ease of scoring vs. point value, scoring a breach consistently is easier to do than high goal scoring, and just as valuable. As the weeks go on, and teams get better at weakening defenses, that strategy has a maximum value.

Essentially low goals and breaches are easier challenges than accurate shooting, with similar outcomes in terms of points, so they'll be common during Week 1. As teams get better, I expect more high goal-shooting alliances to be successful.

[Boltman]

We plan to add scaling and LG scoring to breaching and see how that goes. Hopefully by day 2 we'll have auto HG aim going too in case of elimination rounds.

In SD it was all about Breaching then Scaling then LG...last items for this week are HG and cross+HG auto

[pntbll1313]

Originally Posted by mentos54

Does this mean a lot of low-bar bots failed to achieve what they attempted? And if so, do you think this will be changed as the season progresses?

I don't think teams necessarily "failed" in what they attempted. I don't think we failed even though we never captured once in our 16 matches. For us to capture we required help. We could not guarantee a capture on our own since we needed a couple goals by our alliance partners, and to have everyone parked on the batter. We could however be pretty sure we could breach since there were more partners that could help us, so that's what we focused on.

We scored 6 high goals in teleop in our last finals match (the short blue bot). Just because the data counts us as 0% for capturing doesn't mean we're not capable. I have a feeling capture percentage will rise as the weeks go on By champs it should be pretty common.

[hutchMN]

Originally Posted by pntbll1313

I don't think teams necessarily "failed" in what they attempted. I don't think we failed even though we never captured once in our 16 matches. For us to capture we required help. We could not guarantee a capture on our own since we needed a couple goals by our alliance partners, and to have everyone parked on the batter. We could however be pretty sure we could breach since there were more partners that could help us, so that's what we focused on.

We scored 6 high goals in teleop in our last finals match (the short blue bot). Just because the data counts us as 0% for capturing doesn't mean we're not capable. I have a feeling capture percentage will rise as the weeks go on By champs it should be pretty common.

We need a little help too. Hopefully we can finally team up at 10k

[New Lightning]

From my own observation most teams weren't even trying to shoot balls they focused more on breaching which is were the majority of the points have been coming from so far. I know for sure that my team is planning on being a shooter and a low bar effective.

Also from my own observations I have noticed that because of the lack of defense being played there really shouldn't too much trouble if you have an effective shooter.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by New Lightning

From my own observation most teams weren't even trying to shoot balls they focused more on breaching which is were the majority of the points have been coming from so far. I know for sure that my team is planning on being a shooter and a low bar effective.

Also from my own observations I have noticed that because of the lack of defense being played there really shouldn't too much trouble if you have an effective shooter.

This is largely correct. In addition our team gages what we think we need at any given competition. For our week one we decided the priority was batter shooting and defense crossing. We were very happy with our performance. We learned a ton and are already making major bot revisions. We already know for week five scoring from the defensive positions and climbing will be necessary. That is our focus now.

This is the same every season. Trying to draw conclusions from performance after a week one event is a waste of time. Going into week one there are many variables that are totally unknown including field response and reffing.

[waialua359]

Breaching didnt occur as a preference vs. high goal scoring, in terms of points only.
Breaching was a priority because of the extra ranking point.
Ranking points is the name of the game in qualifications..

[IndySam]

This was week one. As always the game will be very different by week 6.

[Ty Tremblay]

As a comparison, think of how many 6-stacks you saw in week 1 last year.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by waialua359

Breaching didnt occur as a preference vs. high goal scoring, in terms of points only.
Breaching was a priority because of the extra ranking point.
Ranking points is the name of the game in qualifications..

^ This... its much easier to earn a BREACHING RP than a CAPTURE RP since capture needs three bots and more time most likely. One bot can do a BREACH alliances need three bots to do a CAPTURE. Good luck with that until eliminations in most competitions.

[Tmeziere]

It is obvious that breaching is easier than capturing. Because of this, at low levels of play teams choose to forget about boulder and capturing points and focus on breaching because it is a sure ranking point. During our 17 matches at San Diego we captured 4 times (3 times during elims) and breached 16. At the San Diego event there was a total of 6 captures. By week 3 I think most regional's will have three times that many.
I don't think teams failed. I think they focused on getting easy points first and harder points second. This is why we will see a tremendous increase in captures as teams have more time to figure out vision tracking and dial in their shooters.

[Bob Steele]

I would like to make a comment in regards to low goal shooting.
It is much harder than you think it is. When looking down the field it is almost impossible to see the dividers on the batter.

Practice fields, if they have them at all, have wooden ones which can be seen pretty easily. The polycarb ones are almost invisible from the driver station. You know they are there but it is all too easy to run into one.

There are also reflections off of the diamond plate which can make things confusing too when you are trying to get close to it to line up.

We did find that the diamond plate reflection can be used when you are behind a tall defense to help you lineup if you can see it.

I am sure that with practice on a real field, teams will get better over time but just a word to the wise about translating practice field vision to the competition field vision. It is substantially different.

[New Lightning]

However, with the low goal though as long as you have a camera it doesn't matter if you have defenses in front of you, you should still be able to see the low goal.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by New Lightning

However, with the low goal though as long as you have a camera it doesn't matter if you have defenses in front of you, you should still be able to see the low goal.

Yup..biggest issue we had with our driving camera was lag... in fact that is one way we broke our shooter was our driver was relying on the camera to drive and slammed into that divider multiple times. Thinking he was heading to LG.

Afterwards he learned to use it to line up goal shots and wait for it to settle down frame wise. I asked the team to order a faster framerate camera for CV we'll need it up there.