Team Update 15 (2016)

[Jaci]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

I'm a fan. FIRST iterates, and so should you.

Except build season is over, leaving only practice day or in-between matches, time that could be used for other, more important things, like calibration and repairs.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Okay, so if the flap solution somehow results in less permanently damaged low bars, HQ is presumably going to consider it a success, unless they're otherwise notified.

I'm assuming teams that end up eating flaps or have flaps break things are going to be less satisfied with this solution. How loudly are we going to complain...

Our curtain is made of black 1000 Denier Cordura Plus bumper fabric at home, aka stuff that doesn't rip. I feel using that, along with holding teams more accountable for field damage, would have been a far superior solution.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by Jaci

Except build season is over, leaving only practice day or in-between matches, time that could be used for other, more important things, like calibration and repairs.

All the more reason to remove the archaic bag system.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

All the more reason to remove the archaic bag system.

If the game can freely change after the six week build season, the robots should be able to change too... Such big changes would still be annoying but easier to swallow if we all had free access to our robots to adjust to these field changes.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Such big changes would still be annoying but easier to swallow if we all had free access to our robots to adjust to these field changes.

Well... I do, but financially challenged Team WXYZ doesn't, because they couldn't afford to build a second robot like we did.

Forget those guys though. /sarcasm

[Taylor]

If a HP bowled it just right, so that the boulder hopped at the berm and vaulted over the low bar (which we have done in practice), there would be no penalty.
If a HP bowled it just right, so that the boulder struck the corner of the low bar fabric and snuck under (which we have done in practice), there would be no penalty.
Now, if the HP accidentally throws a bit too hard and it rolls through, instant foul. Because the field was faulty.

Not cool.

[The_ShamWOW88]

If teams end up eating the flaps, judging by CD threads in recent days, I don't think teams will have any problems complaining to the Refs, FTAs, LRIs, etc. about it....

[Jaci]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

All the more reason to remove the archaic bag system.

I'm standing with the bag n' tag rule. It helps balance the field for places where, once school starts, time becomes extremely limited (e.g. 8ish hours a week, with a week reserved for shipping the robot), but that's a discussion for another thread. A gripe I've had with FIRST is their ability to change game details after the build season is over...

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

I'm a fan. FIRST iterates, and so should you.

I've got a robot in a bag right now and no practice robot. I can't effectively iterate until practice day. I have enough fun kludging practice day solutions to self imposed problems. I really don't appreciate the GDC creating brand new problems for me.

I can understand being resigned to the necessity of seriously changing the obstacle, but there's really no way I can be a fan of it. Seeing it as a positive change suggests that the GDC should change game fundamentals more often as a way to keep teams on their toes or something.

Originally Posted by The_ShamWOW88

If teams end up eating the flaps, judging by CD threads in recent days, I don't think teams will have any problems complaining to the Refs, FTAs, LRIs, etc. about it....

Yes, but having an organized response would be wise at this point. I mean, look at what we've ended up with leaving the GDC to their own devices to address week 1 low bar complaints.

[Conor Ryan]

Timeout changes are still vague. Your robot can be staged on the field at the end of the time out and team members can still have their hands in the robot with 10 bolts still left to tighten.

I understand the intent, I know most people don't want to be the bad guy and say your robot can't play. But where do you draw the line? Timeouts stress volunteers out more than anybody else because its a long day that is just creeping along, and we are tired and we still need to breakdown the field and load it into a truck/trailer/pod. This game is hard on robots, time outs are going to be used a lot. Is there a better way?

[Jessica Boucher]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I've got a robot in a bag right now and no practice robot. I can't effectively iterate until practice day. I have enough fun kludging practice day solutions to self imposed problems. I really don't appreciate the GDC creating brand new problems for me.

Originally Posted by Jaci

Except build season is over, leaving only practice day or in-between matches, time that could be used for other, more important things, like calibration and repairs.

If anything, this is closer to what happens in the real world all the time. Parameters change all the time for thousands of reasons. This is good practice to learn how to adapt to them.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by Taylor

If a HP bowled it just right, so that the boulder hopped at the berm and vaulted over the low bar (which we have done in practice), there would be no penalty.
If a HP bowled it just right, so that the boulder struck the corner of the low bar fabric and snuck under (which we have done in practice), there would be no penalty.
Now, if the HP accidentally throws a bit too hard and it rolls through, instant foul. Because the field was faulty.

Not cool.

I'm not even sure if FIRST recognizes that this will be a thing yet. I certainly didn't until a week ago and I'm on CD all the time. My guess is they don't realize human players can curve the ball to such an extent.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

If anything, this is closer to what happens in the real world all the time. Parameters change all the time for thousands of reasons. This is good practice to learn how to adapt to them.

In that case, usually 'Recalls' or something of the like are issued to let manufacturers change or fix the issue.

A very significant parameter has been changed without giving teams proper, if any for those of us without practice bots, time to change their designs.

As an engineering student, I have gone through significant classes about design in regards to proper client and manufacturer relations, and how issues like this are handled in the real world. I assure you this is not of the norm, and that professional engineers would agree.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by bkahl

In that case, usually 'Recalls' or something of the like are issued to let manufacturers change or fix the issue.

A very significant parameter has been changed without giving teams proper, if any for those of uswithout practice bots, time to change their designs.

As an engineering student, I have gone through significant classes about design in regards to proper client and manufacturer relations, and how issues like this are handled in the real world. I assure you this is not of the norm, and that professional engineers would agree.

Based on what has been happening at work for me today, I don't think I can agree with you.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

If anything, this is closer to what happens in the real world all the time. Parameters change all the time for thousands of reasons. This is good practice to learn how to adapt to them.

If there wasn't an arbitrary plastic bag keeping me from adapting to changing parameters I would be more inclined to agree