Student or Adult Coach

[IronicDeadBird]

Sumtimes 1339 lets me be shot caller cuz I'm MLG pro strategy and gamer.
Real talk though I've seen a lot of great student drivers take losing to personally so by being out on the field and being the "shot caller" as long as they drive at 110% then we lose cause the shot caller is bad.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Whatever makes sense for your team based on the people within it.

[cadandcookies]

Honest answer for 2667 is we haven't decided yet. It's probably going to be one or the other, though

[indieFan]

Originally Posted by CalTran

That being said, I believe that a mentor serving as a coach is more beneficial than a student coach. Having a mentor be the drive coach means that they will generally be more level headed during stressful situations, they are able to retain the subtle nuances of matches from year to year, and the are able to consistently train the next generation. A mentor coach means that they're more likely able to bring their knowledge year in and year out. Most teams have their drive team as a one-and-done affair.

I completely disagree that a mentor will be more beneficial than a student coach. Team 599 didn't just have a student as the coach, but the student was the person dealing with strategy in the rookie year. He did a much better job than most adults. It was something we continued year after year.

[TylerS]

Having had first hand experience being on a drive team with a mentor coach and being the coach of a drive team as a student I think I can draw a firm conclusion.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

If your goal is to win matches (it might not be) then pick the best person for the job. This might be a student, mentor, support animal, whatever. The hard part isn't deciding between a mentor or student it's about identifying the individual on your team who will best fill the role of a coach and how to do that is a whole other discussion.

[the_godfaubel]

This is what I learned from my drive team experience: having an adult coach really keeps the drivers in check. They are kind of the rock back there to make sure you don't lose your cool. They protect you from saying something really stupid if you are having a bad match. They have also, most likely, been in these situations before whereas student coaches might just not know what to do in a panic situation.

[rich2202]

Our team has always had a Student Coach. It gets one more student onto the field. The Mentors watch from the Stands, sees what happens, and makes recommendations for the next match. There is not much a Mentor can do in the 2 minutes 30 seconds that a Student can't do. In that time, you are executing the plan. There is not enough time to change it. A student is just as capable of keeping the drivers on track. Too many cooks spoil the broth. You have to let the driver drive. If something wacky happens, they have to learn to deal with it. It is only one match. Better to learn during the Qualification Matches, so they will be ready to react themselves during Eliminations.

That said, I have been a volunteer on the Field for the past few years (ref, robot inspector, field reset, etc.). If they did have an issue, I would be a friendly face they would not feel intimidated asking a question.

[BordomBeThyName]

I'm the drive team mentor for 2102 this year, but my involvement with the drive team doesn't extend past the cueing line. Sure, having an adult behind the plexi would get us better odds of winning, but so would having an adult build and drive the thing.

That's not the point of FIRST though, is it? I guess this question rolls up into the larger (and very old) discussion of how much involvement mentors should have on a team. We've always come down hard on the "stand back and advise" side of that, but that's just us. If I wanted to see a competition of professionally built robots, I wouldn't be volunteering at a high school program.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Our team has always had a Student Coach. It gets one more student onto the field. The Mentors watch from the Stands, sees what happens, and makes recommendations for the next match. There is not much a Mentor can do in the 2 minutes 30 seconds that a Student can't do. In that time, you are executing the plan. There is not enough time to change it. A student is just as capable of keeping the drivers on track. Too many cooks spoil the broth. You have to let the driver drive. If something wacky happens, they have to learn to deal with it. It is only one match. Better to learn during the Qualification Matches, so they will be ready to react themselves during Eliminations.

I agree that a student could be just as competent of a coach as a mentor. I've met some incredible student coaches, and 1678 had student coaches through 2013.

Regardless of student/mentor coach, there actually is a lot you can do mid-match to ensure the victory. I've made some big calls over the past few years that saved us qual matches, or ensured an playoff victory, etc.

Does that mean you don't need to plan for each match? No, but sometimes things don't go as planned, and being able to make the right calls in these situations can help pull a win out of a bad situation.

Just saying, plans can change in a 2.5 minute match. Being able to change plans quickly when necessary can make or break a match.

Now, carry on with beating the dead horse of mentor/student coaches

-Mike

PS. You hear 254 has a student coach now? Crazy times.

[IronicDeadBird]

I mean if this boils down to what is best for the students then just ask them what they want.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

I mean if this boils down to what is best for the students then just ask them what they want.

You must not be a parent...

-Mike

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

You must not be a parent...

-Mike

No I've done child care since 5th grade I understand the students don't know best argument. But lets run the scenario.

If the students want a mentor give them a mentor everyone wins
If students want a student and you give them a mentor then the students might not be comfortable or as responsive so nobody wins

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

PS. You hear 254 has a student coach now? Crazy times.

Yeah, sabermetrics tells us training up and coming freshman drivers by starting them as coaches gets us 2 more match wins over the lifetime of the team.

[BordomBeThyName]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

Yeah, sabermetrics tells us training up and coming freshman drivers by starting them as coaches gets us 2 more match wins over the lifetime of the team.

Interestingly we've been toying around with the opposite idea. Start a lead driver as a freshman or sophomore and let them drive until Junior year. Once they become a Senior, put them in as a coach to train up the next driver. 254 probably knows better than us, but we'll see where this plan leads us in a few years.

[Richard.Varone]

We use an adult coach, the primary reason isn't the students being able to handle it or not, it's more because if something goes wrong/unplanned we want the adult to take any/all blame for how a match plays out. We feel this takes some of the pressure off the students and prevents any fingers pointing to them.