pic: New low bar flaps

[JohnSchneider]

This is a joke. The bar is an entirely different obstacle now. Shouldn't have rolled this out till next week so teams had time to prepare...

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

This is a joke. The bar is an entirely different obstacle now. Shouldn't have rolled this out till next week so teams had time to prepare...

Seeing as FIRST basically had no low bar flaps left after week 1, no matter what they did it would have been "an entirely different obstacle". This seems like the closest they could get to the former behavior on their tight schedule.

[MrBasse]

That's definitely not the most attractive solution I've seen to a problem. How fast and easily do they get pushed sideways and get hung up on the zip ties on the bar?

[SharonO]

Unless something changes in the morning, Kansas City was still using regular low bar coverings, except they are made from red and blue bumper material.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by SharonO

Unless something changes in the morning, Kansas City was still using regular low bar coverings, except they are made from red and blue bumper material.

Oh boy, now we have drastic inconsistencies across events!

Hopefully Kansas City switches to the new method for the actual matches.

[Rebecca Pelzer]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

That's definitely not the most attractive solution I've seen to a problem. How fast and easily do they get pushed sideways and get hung up on the zip ties on the bar?

Not so much the flaps themselves, but the zipties at the top (around the low bar itself, holding them in place), get pushed out of place at least every two matches.

Everyone that I've seen go under the lowbar (so far) has seemingly gone under it the same as they would with the normal flap.

[Monochron]

I know departing from a field element with very little notice is a big change, but I honestly don't see what everyone is so up in arms about.

Sure having multiple flaps hanging inside a robot, when the design was for a solid bar across the top, but these flaps don't look like they are going to pose much of an issue for any robots that I have seen. They look exceptionally slick and very responsive to being pushed aside.

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by Monochron

I know departing from a field element with very little notice is a big change, but I honestly don't see what everyone is so up in arms about.

Sure having multiple flaps hanging inside a robot, when the design was for a solid bar across the top, but these flaps don't look like they are going to pose much of an issue for any robots that I have seen. They look exceptionally slick and very responsive to being pushed aside.

Just to have some fun and add some input... I have heard of at least one team saying that the flaps cause the ball to come out of their robot.

I know my robot will not be affected by this change at all. (Or I hope so, we'll see in two weeks)

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Monochron

I know departing from a field element with very little notice is a big change, but I honestly don't see what everyone is so up in arms about.

Sure having multiple flaps hanging inside a robot, when the design was for a solid bar across the top, but these flaps don't look like they are going to pose much of an issue for any robots that I have seen. They look exceptionally slick and very responsive to being pushed aside.

I think that depends on the robot.
Flaps may cause entanglement vs one big wide fabric.
Also, as Alex mentioned, I could see a design where it could alter the ball placement in certain robots. With one large fabric, teams have already made fabric/portcullis guides that they ride on instead of sections inside their robot.

At Lake Superior last weekend, the sewing machine on the side of the field actively creating a low bar curtain out of bumper fabric was pretty neat to see.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by SharonO

Unless something changes in the morning, Kansas City was still using regular low bar coverings, except they are made from red and blue bumper material.

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

Oh boy, now we have drastic inconsistencies across events!

Hopefully Kansas City switches to the new method for the actual matches.

Originally Posted by Team Update 15

This solution will be implemented at most events, assuming shipments are on time.

Apparently KC regional doesn't qualify for "most" events status. I asked Tyler, the head ref, this morning and he pointed out the operative word "most" in the update.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by Monochron

I know departing from a field element with very little notice is a big change, but I honestly don't see what everyone is so up in arms about.

Sure having multiple flaps hanging inside a robot, when the design was for a solid bar across the top, but these flaps don't look like they are going to pose much of an issue for any robots that I have seen. They look exceptionally slick and very responsive to being pushed aside.

Get back to me once you've played with them. And even then it's not a change that effects everyone. But it does effect some people because robots were designed for a specific fabric. As a collective FIRST did not give teams ample time to adjust so some teams are being penalized. They should have just played without the fabric this week and installed the flaps next week.

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Apparently KC regional doesn't qualify for "most" events status. I asked Tyler, the head ref, this morning and he pointed out the operative word "most" in the update.

It's also due to shipments. The places close to carr warehouses and all will get them first than others.

[dmorewood]

Has anyone actively tried to get a boulder through this? I know it's "technically" illegal but if someone can get the ball through the gaps after they've potentially been disrupted and moved by a robot isn't that more of just a poor design by the GDC then a foul or illegal movement of a boulder by a team.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by dmorewood

Has anyone actively tried to get a boulder through this? I know it's "technically" illegal but if someone can get the ball through the gaps after they've potentially been disrupted and moved by a robot isn't that more of just a poor design by the GDC then a foul or illegal movement of a boulder by a team.

Some of the volunteers at Wilsonville were trying to do this while teams were connecting to the field...they didn't manage to get one all the way through, but one boulder made it to the other side of the low bar, held in place by one of the flaps. Definitely not impossible.

I was also playing around with one of the low bars -- as a result of the rubbery material the flaps are made of, it's close to impossible to get it to swing all the way around the bar as the fabric did. I couldn't tell exactly how much room it was taking up, but I think it was about half an inch under the low bar, so some teams that are close to 14" could have a little unexpected fun this weekend getting through.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

Get back to me once you've played with them. And even then it's not a change that effects everyone. But it does effect some people because robots were designed for a specific fabric. As a collective FIRST did not give teams ample time to adjust so some teams are being penalized. They should have just played without the fabric this week and installed the flaps next week.

I imagine you have played with them then, if you are continuing the discussion? How have they affected your play?

I am very interested to see real results of the change, but we are all operating on guesses at the moment. You said that it does affect some people, do you know who? I would like to see the implications of this change and you are acting like you already have some knowledge that I don't.