Stronghold Tower field fault

[Tottanka]

So we just returned from our regional at Tel Aviv, Israel.

Before i begin, the goal of this post is one: get the attention of teams and FIRST so the same thing doesn't happen to other teams.

This is a video of QF 4 - 3. The match ended 102-97, in favor of the blue alliance.

In the video you can see a boulder going into the tower, and going out through the sensor system without going through the automated counting system.
Needless to say, this boulder was 100% a legal. The boulder didn't count, even after prolonged talks with the head referee and FTA.

Teams, please take a look and try bringing this to the attentions of your FTAs during events.

video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQf9gKTW12A

[Akash Rastogi]

That's absurd. Definitely counts. I suggest sending this along to Frank Merrick or anyone else at FIRST. Posting on CD works and all, but direct emails are better.

Why did your head ref not count this? What was the rationale given? Makes absolutely no sense.

[petercooperjr]

Per the definition in the manual:

Originally Posted by 2016 Game Manual, section 3.1.4

A BOULDER is scored in a GOAL if it passes through the opening of a GOAL and exits into the CORRAL, and the points awarded for that BOULDER are assigned based on when the BOULDER passed through the opening of the GOAL.

So, if the Boulder doesn't exit into the Corral, it is not scored, regardless.

Now, if the back of the tower failed in some way that it was a clear breakage of the field and the field wasn't in compliance with the drawings, I could conceive of it being called a field fault. And that could lead to replay of the match, based on the criteria given in the manual for that.

I see this as very similar to 2014, where if the ball bounced back into the field, it didn't "stay through" the opening of the goal, and thus didn't count.

[Tottanka]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

That's absurd. Definitely counts. I suggest sending this along to Frank Merrick or anyone else at FIRST. Posting on CD works and all, but direct emails are better.

Why did your head ref not count this? What was the rationale given? Makes absolutely no sense.

A. The talks took so much time that the semi finals were already being played when the final call was made.

B. They said they are not considering any video evidence and are 100% trusting the field automated counting system.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by petercooperjr

I see this as very similar to 2014, where if the ball bounced back into the field, it didn't "stay through" the opening of the goal, and thus didn't count.

I don't view this in that way. I think this is more like our shot into the goal from 2014 when we were up close. The ball would go flying off the field (THANK YOU TO ANY VOLUNTEERS WHO HAD TO CATCH IT!). The ball didn't bounce back onto the field. It left the field through the goal. This should be a simple fix to put some backing up to keep the ball in or tell refs they should count it if they know about it/observe it. I think this should have counted and good on OP for posting this. Hopefully Frank et al. sees it and will help out other teams.

[adam the great]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

A. The talks took so much time that the semi finals were already being played when the final call was made.

B. They said they are not considering any video evidence and are 100% trusting the field automated counting system.

Just throwing this info to the thread just cause some people might not know about this and assume certain things: But as a Ref you are not allowed to look at any video for a match, not as proof of an error or really for ANY reason. And I'm sure there is a discussion thread somewhere about the pros and cons of that, and it is always unfortunate when a match is called wrong cause something is missed or w.e. But that would be the reason why they can't look at the video and say oh... yah oops our bad.

[Tottanka]

Originally Posted by adam the great

Just throwing this info to the thread just cause some people might not know about this and assume certain things: But as a Ref you are not allowed to look at any video for a match, not as proof of an error or really for ANY reason. And I'm sure there is a discussion thread somewhere about the pros and cons of that, and it is always unfortunate when a match is called wrong cause something is missed or w.e. But that would be the reason why they can't look at the video and say oh... yah oops our bad.

And we as a team accept and even agree with their call. We just want this to be avoided by other teams and think it's a simple fix.
Imagine if this happened on Einstein finals...

[AJOHNSON]

Playing devil's advocate here, would receiving that goal have changed the outcome of the match? It's a 5 point difference so unless that prevents you from a capture would it have made a difference.

[Anteprefix]

Originally Posted by AJOHNSON

Playing devil's advocate here, would receiving that goal have changed the outcome of the match? It's a 5 point difference so unless that prevents you from a capture would it have made a difference.

This is a video of QF 4 - 3. The match ended 102-97, in favor of the blue alliance.

It would have gone to the tiebreaker, no? I think that's pretty significant.

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

So we just returned from our regional at Tel Aviv, Israel.

Before i begin, the goal of this post is one: get the attention of teams and FIRST so the same thing doesn't happen to other teams.

This is a video of QF 4 - 3. The match ended 102-97, in favor of the blue alliance...

If the score was actually 102-97 with a boulder being 5 points, it would have made a difference.

[Lij2015]

I hate to say it but FIRST is pretty adamant about not accepting video for replays.

[wlaroche]

On our First week event there was some missing plexiglass in the tower. We ended up putting cardboard in place till the plexiglass showed up. I bet it was missing for this competition as well. Referees are told to watch the field I can see why it got missed. At our week one event we ended up having to put a field steward by the corral and watch to make sure the balls were going all the way through the scoring sensor. This issue would have been caught by the field steward and hopefully brought to the attention of the HR.

[Tottanka]

Originally Posted by Anteprefix

It would have gone to the tiebreaker, no? I think that's pretty significant.

Yup, tie breaker.