Video Review Needs to Happen Now

[gblake]

Originally Posted by patar8746

... Why not take that chance?

For all the reasons other people I agree with have already explained accurately.

[patar8746]

Originally Posted by gblake

For all the reasons other people I agree with have already explained accurately.

I've seen reasons it might not work, but nothing refuting trying the system over the off-season

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by gblake

For all the reasons other people I agree with have already explained accurately.

From what I've read the main arguments against in-house video replay (no external video, that opens a can of worms) are cost, time and "this is the way it's always been done."

I look forward to proving all of these wrong when we run a pilot of this at the Gateway Robotics Challenge in October. Expect a whitepaper that addresses all of the previously mentioned concerns.

Remember everyone - tons of people said the district system would never work in FIRST. Did Michigan take no for an answer? Now districts are the main path forward for FRC. There are a million reasons to say no, I'm proposing a solution that makes it easy to say yes, let's try this.

[caume]

I have had experience with refs making the wrong call, effecting the winner of the match in 2014. I was driving for 3324, the Metrobots, in the semi-finals against 16. In the first match, 16 won, but we put up a good fight. In the second match, I actually managed to defend enough against them to win that match, however, they went to the judge's table afterward, and somehow convinced them that we cheated/broke a rule, so they redid the match entirely, when video evidence would have proven we did nothing wrong. The third (second official) match, 16 won, and our season was over. I am still extremely proud of beating mentor built, swerve drive with pneumatic shooter, with a student built mecanum drive with a sketchy kicker, and it's really unfortunate to not even acknowledge officially that we won that match.

That being said, I still think video evidence should not be shown to refs. If a video proves a ref wrong, people begin to trust the ref less and less, just ensuring more drama and chaos. I know the feeling of refs making mistakes, and it is extremely frustrating and makes you hate the system at the time, but it's really the most logical thing to do. Videos don't always show what happens, such as a drawbridge blocking a view, so it can and will just bring up more controversy.

[Sam_Mills]

Originally Posted by caume

I am still extremely proud of beating mentor built, swerve drive with pneumatic shooter, with a student built mecanum drive with a sketchy kicker, and it's really unfortunate to not even acknowledge officially that we won that match.

Oh boy...

[caume]

Originally Posted by Sam_Mills

Oh boy...

What's the problem?

[rzoeller]

Originally Posted by caume

What's the problem?

My issue with it is that the post comes across as accusatory unnecessarily, and makes assumptions about another team's robot and team as a whole without any sort of validation or proof.

[Lij2015]

Originally Posted by caume

What's the problem?

You absolutely DO NOT want to re-open this can of worms, I''ll leave it at that.

[nrgy_blast]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

From what I've read the main arguments against in-house video replay (no external video, that opens a can of worms) are cost, time and "this is the way it's always been done."

I look forward to proving all of these wrong when we run a pilot of this at the Gateway Robotics Challenge in October. Expect a whitepaper that addresses all of the previously mentioned concerns.

Remember everyone - tons of people said the district system would never work in FIRST. Did Michigan take no for an answer? Now districts are the main path forward for FRC. There are a million reasons to say no, I'm proposing a solution that makes it easy to say yes, let's try this.

I greatly look forward to seeing this report! I've been on both sides of the line (judge, head judge, mentor), and I have faith we can come up with some sort of review system to help eliminate the bulk of the most impactful wrong decisions. Limit to elims only, for example.

[Boltman]

I go back to the idea a basic video of the game that anyone can take could be used for some end of day 1 RP issues and also any elimination issues (at some point after the game except in case of elimination w/l decisions). I don't want video to slow the game play down but I think there is a reasonable option that should be used for critical calls like losses in eliminations and first/second order ranking point issues...until FRC allows review though its the way it is.

CV seemed better than SD in terms of crossing accuracy except our first match where we had to go through portcullis (which is blatantly obvious ) six times each way, I heard our SF alliance petitioned a cross in CV elims too and were denied the points as well. we talked to the head ref in Qual 1 and made them aware ..it got better. We still won and got the 3RP

Here is FRC response...

"Thank you for writing and your suggestion. However, we have made the determination that any level of video review would open the door to extensive reviews, as every team at an event could have thought they saw something that caused them to miss an RP. To determine if something was indeed missed, out of fairness, it would require a review of all concerns.
Also, it might be helpful to think of this as a typical high school sports activity, in which video reviews are usually unavailable, and it is recognized that referees are human, and will occasionally miss something. While unfortunate, this is an accepted part of the experience.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions."

I see where they are coming from luckily from our perspective it dd not affect anything this season for us. We had great alliances each competition and a shot at it...which is all you can hope for anyhow.

[dradel]

On the note of field automation, from what I have read here on cd the flags above the towers aren't even working at most events !

[MrTechCenter]

Originally Posted by dradel

On the note of field automation, from what I have read here on cd the flags above the towers aren't even working at most events !

For a lot of regionals, they either didn't get the flags with the field road cases or the crew setting up the field decided not to put them up.

[Madison]

How can you review something for correctness when there's no record it happened?

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by Foster

Thank you very much for your data point with the detailed description on how it worked out.

Question, how long did it take you to do the replay and make a decision?

and again, we've beaten this horse to death with opinions, still looking for the events that did it and the FACTS around it.

I'd say it took us around 5-10 minutes to check everything, decide, and edit the scores. That's only because we didn't really have an actual system in place and we were just playing back the webcast. If we actually planned out and came up with a process, dedicated equipment, etc. it would probably take significantly less time.

[wilsonmw04]

Wow,
This is such a bad idea for so many reason, forget the logistics of it: technology required, time and energy, etc; it puts the emphasis on the wrong part of the event: who won. We need to take the best of the sports model, not the entire thing.