Video Review Needs to Happen Now

[smistthegreat]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

You're right, but we're also dealing with high school students who put their heart and soul into a robot and into every match, and kids seeing their seasons end because of something not being counted inspires nobody.

(also in this specific case its very easy to tell regardless of what video it was that the stack was up- that's not really arguable)

You're 100% correct, and I'm glad that the situation was resolved to the satisfaction of those involved. I just wanted to point out that this verbiage was present in the manual last year as well. I wasn't implying that the revision shouldn't have counted.

[dradel]

I still want to know how so many crossings are being missed. I saw 5 today alone while watching streams on and off of wpi and the Blacksburg event. Let alone the ones I saw from the Waterbury event last weekend.
I asked my drivers about and they told me that during the drivers meeting the refs said if they didn't see it then it didn't happen, and not to come to the question box about it.

[JohnBoucher]

This discussion is good to have but I don't like bashing the referees or the disregard for the rules the you agreed to play under.

Please remember that 99% of the volunteers working any event are doing this for the love of the game. The game is played as fairly and evenhanded as possible. To suggest otherwise is a discredit to all those who give their time and energy to this.

We have all had thing go against us. GP allows us to move beyond it and appreciate what we have accomplished.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

This discussion is good to have but I don't like bashing the referees or the disregard for the rules the you agreed to play under.

Please remember that 99% of the volunteers working any event are doing this for the love of the game. The game is played as fairly and evenhanded as possible. To suggest otherwise is a discredit to all those who give their time and energy to this.

We have all

This always gets me. Cant not agree to them when its the only game in town.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dradel

I still want to know how so many crossings are being missed. I saw 5 today alone while watching streams on and off of wpi and the Blacksburg event. Let alone the ones I saw from the Waterbury event last weekend.

Something to think about:

If a referee isn't sure that a crossing happened, they will not count it. There's a blue box to that effect. What that means in some cases is that a team doesn't quite clear the ramps (thereby remaining in the defenses) and reverses back over. That's not a crossing. Might not be terribly obvious on the webcast that their bumper (or other appendage) is hanging over, but there's that possibility.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by EricH

Because the vast majority of the calls that would be made are judgement calls. FIRST seems to have made the determination that only referees can provide that judgement in some years (2014 and 2016 come to mind). I can't say I'd trust someone who just "knows the game" with determining whether team X crossed a defense--there is a very specific definition of Crossing, and that very specific definition has led to numerous teams not quite meeting it and then complaining about it not being called. Just trust me on that.

If you don't have the training of a referee, why would you try to make a referee's call?

The person running it simply has to go to the spot where the student says something was missed or penalty was called wrong and bring a ref over to look at it real quick. Could honestly be in between matches too and only if a student has a valid complaint and a general time in the match in which it happened. And hey if the videos are all saved too then now we have videos of every match at every regional and we solved that problem too! Idk maybe that's the real reason I would like to see this happen.

[JohnBoucher]

Originally Posted by dodar

This always gets me. Cant not agree to them when its the only game in town.

It's not the only game in town. I am the biggest advocate that the team is the customer but if you have done this for more one season, you should understand how this works.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

It's not the only game in town. I am the biggest advocate that the team is the customer but if you have done this for more one season, you should understand how this works.

I have, 10 years in fact, and over those 10 years the rules have most definitely changed quite a bit.

[dradel]

Originally Posted by EricH

Something to think about:

If a referee isn't sure that a crossing happened, they will not count it. There's a blue box to that effect. What that means in some cases is that a team doesn't quite clear the ramps (thereby remaining in the defenses) and reverses back over. That's not a crossing. Might not be terribly obvious on the webcast that their bumper (or other appendage) is hanging over, but there's that possibility.

Well when a team goes over one of the defenses and is 4' away from the driver station wall and doesn't get credit for crossing in auto that is a problem. Even if you didn't see them cross but as you look about the field and see 2 bots well past the outer works and don't push a button on the scoring screens that is an issue. I mean how did they end up there if they didn't cross??

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dradel

Well when a team goes over one of the defenses and is 4' away from the driver station wall and doesn't get credit for crossing in auto that is a problem. Even if you didn't see them cross but as you look about the field and see 2 bots well past the outer works and don't push a button on the scoring screens that is an issue. I mean how did they end up there if they didn't cross??

Then that is something to bring up to the head referee. Just tell him that you were clearly past the outer works in auto and got no credit. If the Head Referee isn't listening, the next person to talk to would be the Volunteer Coordinator or Regional Director--they'll back up the head referee in on-field calls, but if enough teams are saying something they'll probably have a chat. And it it's just that one ref isn't pressing their buttons, then the head ref can take measures...

[JohnBoucher]

Originally Posted by dodar

I have, 10 years in fact, and over those 10 years the rules have most definitely changed quite a bit.

The whole reason we do this has not changed.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

The whole reason we do this has not changed.

We do this for the students. And we should do right by the students. Both at home and at competitions.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

We do this for the students. And we should do right by the students. Both at home and at competitions.

In the real world, does somebody sometimes win X that they shouldn't have because Y?


Now the question becomes, is it better for the students to expose them to this now, or not?

Understand that I'm not saying that missed calls are a good thing. Learning how to handle missed calls, however, can be invaluable.

[dradel]

Originally Posted by EricH

Then that is something to bring up to the head referee. Just tell him that you were clearly past the outer works in auto and got no credit. If the Head Referee isn't listening, the next person to talk to would be the Volunteer Coordinator or Regional Director--they'll back up the head referee in on-field calls, but if enough teams are saying something they'll probably have a chat. And it it's just that one ref isn't pressing their buttons, then the head ref can take measures...

Again when teams are told during driver meeting not to even come to the box for a missed cross it is kind of hard to expect these teenagers to push like that.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by EricH

In the real world, does somebody sometimes win X that they shouldn't have because Y?


Now the question becomes, is it better for the students to expose them to this now, or not?

Understand that I'm not saying that missed calls are a good thing. Learning how to handle missed calls, however, can be invaluable.

In real life, you have access to lots of ways to challenge a ruling too.