Banging the driver station

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by TDav540

...not every team has/can afford sensors...

... While I'm not saying that all rookies cannot afford sensors, many cannot...

Every team receives an ultrasonic sensor as a PDV. This is a perfect sensor to be used for not slamming into walls at full speed in auto. There are dozens of other sensors that cost less than $50 that could also be implemented to stop teams from driving full speed into walls.

There are legitimate reasons why teams might not be able to stop themselves from driving into walls, such as inexperienced programmers or lack of programming time with the robot. However a lack of free/affordable sensors is not one of them.

[swaxman12345]

Originally Posted by tomy

There was a robot at the Duluth Regional that would do this every time in Auto Mode. They went through the defense then went full power at the wall. There should be a rule against this.

Yeah. We accidentally ran into the wall once and dislodged an opposing driver station. They didn't have any tape or Velcro on their station but even so we got a yellow card. I think I'd be more inclined to issue a yellow card if it was repeated match to match, but that was the referee's ruling.

[*Rachelle*]

Originally Posted by swaxman12345

Yeah. We accidentally ran into the wall once and dislodged an opposing driver station. They didn't have any tape or Velcro on their station but even so we got a yellow card. I think I'd be more inclined to issue a yellow card if it was repeated match to match, but that was the referee's ruling.

I don't understand why they would yellow card this. It was once from what you say, and they specifically warned all of us about driver stations being knocked off in in "Week .5" and that we should Velcro them.

"You should expect the opposing robots to drive at your castle wall at high speed during auto, slamming into it. If your operator console isn’t secured, it may go flying. There is a strip of hook and loop tape on the shelf in the player station that holds your operator console. You should consider putting a mating piece of hook and loop tape on the bottom of your operator console to help it stay put. See Section 2.2.3.1 of the Game Manual." - See more at: http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic....OwoXGJhj.dpuf

Egregious is supposed to mean severe, and the examples the FRC manual used are more along the lines of humans touching robots during a match, not robots hitting the driver station.

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by *Rachelle*

<snip>
Egregious is supposed to mean severe, and the examples the FRC manual used are more along the lines of humans touching robots during a match, not robots hitting the driver station.

From my perspective behind the driver station, the hits were egregious in the sense it was shocking and bad. Not sure how it looked from the ref's location.

They were also repeated when the robot was shooting for the low goal.

My drive team asked if we could do the same thing when we were on the field (our robot was built very tough) and were told that is not a strategy we would use whether legal or not.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

Every team receives an ultrasonic sensor as a PDV. This is a perfect sensor to be used for not slamming into walls at full speed in auto. There are dozens of other sensors that cost less than $50 that could also be implemented to stop teams from driving full speed into walls.

There are legitimate reasons why teams might not be able to stop themselves from driving into walls, such as inexperienced programmers or lack of programming time with the robot. However a lack of free/affordable sensors is not one of them.

While you have a valid point about the cost of the device....

Originally Posted by Abrakadabra

In the future, you might want to consider an ultrasonic sensor (relatively cheap, but prone to signal scatter from the diamond plate walls) or for a little more money, one of the new compact LIDAR units.

.....this is also true. Ultrasonics would probably help often, but they aren't a perfect system.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by TDav540

While you have a valid point about the cost of the device....



.....this is also true. Ultrasonics would probably help often, but they aren't a perfect system.

I'll admit I haven't used ultrasonics with the diamond plate on the field (I'll be able to tell you more after week 4), but I find it highly doubtful that the scatter will be so bad that the ~10 foot sensors from MaxBotix wouldn't see the wall at all when the robot is 4 feet away from it. If this is the case, our autonomous routines are going to have some troubles.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

I'll admit I haven't used ultrasonics with the diamond plate on the field (I'll be able to tell you more after week 4), but I find it highly doubtful that the scatter will be so bad that the ~10 foot sensors from MaxBotix wouldn't see the wall at all when the robot is 4 feet away from it. If this is the case, our autonomous routines are going to have some troubles.

I don't either (not a programmer, aren't using them this year), so I wouldn't be able to make a definitive call either. I'm definitely interested to hear about it though.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by TDav540

I don't either (not a programmer, aren't using them this year), so I wouldn't be able to make a definitive call either. I'm definitely interested to hear about it though.

Sounds good, I'll make sure to post an update on the Iowa regional thread, so check there or watch our matches if you want to see how it goes.

[Joe Ross]

I know this thread wasn't supposed to be about autonomous, but since there's a lot of discussion about encoders losing counts, I figured I'd chime in with this: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/at...3&d=1458005957

If 5089 could stop after catching that much air, it's a matter of tuning, not sensor selection.

[Wetzel]

...I thought this thread would be about having teams stop banging on the driver station during team announcements. I was disappointed.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

...I thought this thread would be about having teams stop banging on the driver station during team announcements. I was disappointed.

I see the announcers doing it more, not even considering the fact i have never seen it in any PNW event i have been to.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

I'll admit I haven't used ultrasonics with the diamond plate on the field (I'll be able to tell you more after week 4), but I find it highly doubtful that the scatter will be so bad that the ~10 foot sensors from MaxBotix wouldn't see the wall at all when the robot is 4 feet away from it. If this is the case, our autonomous routines are going to have some troubles.

Personally I have never had too much luck with the Maxbotix ultra sonic sensors. The reading always seemed to be very low resolution.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Personally I have never had too much luck with the Maxbotix ultra sonic sensors. The reading always seemed to be very low resolution.

Resolution without filtering can sometimes be bad, but never horrible. With our running average filter, we have about 4-inch resolution. I suspect that a median filter would work better, so we might try that if we want better performance.

Regardless, even without filtering, it can pretty easily be used not to run full speed into walls.

[maxnz]

Back in Lunacy they had bumpers on the alliance station wall. In hindsight, that may have been a good idea this year.

[neshera]

Interesting thread.
What would the commenters think about a robot that, either in Auto or Tele-Op, unintentionally repeatedly rammed in to other robots at full speed, hard enough to damage/disable the other robot?
Would a notification that robots should be built to withstand high-speed impacts excuse such behavior?
Would a notification that robots should be built to withstand high-speed impacts absolve the ramming robot of yellow/red cards?
Would we condone a team building/driving such a robot?

My point is, the drivers' station equipment is something teams purchase, program, build, modify - just like our robots. It is not inspiring to see your hard work go down the drain because someone else found a task too daunting/difficult.

Our goal is to inspire students. Telling them it is their fault for not securing their equipment well enough, or that they didn't buy robust (read: expensive) enough equipment, or to just "deal with it" when entire matches or entire regionals are destroyed for them does not seem to me to be the right attitude.