PCH District: Albany & Dalton Predictions

[PCH Informer]

Looking Back at Columbus...

Looking at the gameplay, we saw that breaching reigned supreme, so much so that the captain of the winning alliance was only capable of breaching. Now, that isn’t to imply that breaching was hard; nearly every match had a breach. However, the teams that could breach consistently found success.

Looking at the event, we were disappointed to see the issues that plagued teams throughout the weekend. Whether it was the lack of a practice field, carpet being laid over turf, or the persistent communication drops, Columbus was a roller coaster for nearly everyone. Now, for those that may try to downplay these issues, consider that many qualifications matches had robots that were unable to move or robots that died. Add that to the fact that nearly every eliminations match featured a dead or debilitated machine, and you’re not just looking at minor issues, you’re looking at serious problems.

Looking Forward…

Looking past Columbus, Albany and Dalton present some interesting challenges and gameplay prospects.

The first note is that it’s only been a handful of days since Columbus. Teams that are competing for the first time will be getting up to speed while the teams that competed in Columbus will have very little time to make improvements. As such, we don’t imagine that the game play will take any huge steps forward.

With that being said, we are confident that this will be the weekend that the Peacthree District sees its first set of captures. This past weekend, high goal shooters quickly realized that the high goal wasn’t worth it, yet. As more and more shooters begin to focus their efforts on the low goals, we’re going to see more and more towers come down.

Dalton

2974 - Fresh off their finalist finish at Columbus, Walton is back at it in Dalton, and they’re going to hit the ground running. In week 2, Walton featured a robot that was stellar at breaching and could make the occasional high goal shot. In a shallow field full of untested robots, we predict that Walton will quickly rise to the #1 seed and walk away with, at least, another finalist finish.

1771 - A couple of years ago, we saw a regional powerhouse split in two. While 4509 and 1771 continued, neither one was fully able to capture the power that 1771 once brought to the field. However, this season, 1771 is whole again, and they’re featuring an arm design that only the 1771-of-old can pull off. Historically speaking, 1771 has a rough go of things at the beginning, but once they settle down, they’re borderline unstoppable. We predict that 1771 will have a rough start as they try and meld their strategy with one that’s effective. However, by the time eliminations rolls around, we expect 1771 to be one of the best robots at Dalton.

1311 - Back in the day, you could hardly turn your head without 1311 walking away with Chairmans or featuring an impressive, brute-ish machine. However, 1311 has been woefully missing from the GA competitive and awards scene, but all that is about to change. Featuring a “monstrous” drivetrain and a hanger, 1311 could redefine what it means to be a breacher in our district. As most teams do, we expect 1311 will struggle early in the event, but the key to their success, and a potentially strong alliance partner in eliminations, will be their ability to bolster their score with a fast, consistent hang.

5004 - 5004 really surprised us at Columbus with their rhino track drivetrain and consistent breaching; both of which played a critical role in their success as the 5th seed alliance captain. At Columbus, they were handed a quick quarterfinals exit by the district champions, but Dalton could be a different story. At an event that features very little depth and many new teams, we expect that 5004 will be sitting comfortably in the top 8 and may even find themselves as another alliance captain.

Albany

1002 - Last year, 1002 did really well at Perry, and that was primarily because of how effective they were at the core game mechanics. This year, 1002 has a nice looking shooter, but they don’t offer much in the way of intake or breaching abilities. With that being said, 1002 is a veteran team that’s picked up a few new resources and mentors, and their success is going to rely entirely on their ability to better align their robot and their strategy with the core game mechanics.

1261 - Following Columbus, the Robolions are taking another trip down south. In Week 2, 1261 proved to be a dominant breacher, to the point that we would say they were the 2nd best breaching robot at the event. However, breaching is only one dimension of the game, and 1261 seemed to struggle when it came to actually handling boulders. We expect that as a solid breacher, 1261 will be an extremely dominant force during the qualification rounds. However, their success in eliminations will depend on how much they improve handling boulders and partnering up with someone who can help them gain captures.

1648 - 1648 is coming off a particularly painful loss in Columbus. Despite the fact that they were heavily impacted by the turf and communication issues, 1648 was still the best low-goaler at the event. Ultimately, no matter how bad 1648 wants the win, their success this weekend is going to rely on consistency. If they can keep their robot functional and active, they’re going to make another serious run in Albany.

4188 - 4188 is coming hot off their victory in Columbus. As the only scoring robot on their alliance, they played a crucial part in helping lead the #4 seed to success. However in Albany, 4188’s breaching abilities are going to be put to the test. 4188 will need a strong partner to help them breach and capture towers in eliminations, and the only way to guarantee that, is to breach during qualifications and secure the #1 seed.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by PCH Informer

Albany

1002 - Last year, 1002 did really well at Perry, and that was primarily because of how effective they were at the core game mechanics. This year, 1002 has a nice looking shooter, but they don’t offer much in the way of intake or breaching abilities. With that being said, 1002 is a veteran team that’s picked up a few new resources and mentors, and their success is going to rely entirely on their ability to better align their robot and their strategy with the core game mechanics.

1261 - Following Columbus, the Robolions are taking another trip down south. In Week 2, 1261 proved to be a dominant breacher, to the point that we would say they were the 2nd best breaching robot at the event. However, breaching is only one dimension of the game, and 1261 seemed to struggle when it came to actually handling boulders. We expect that as a solid breacher, 1261 will be an extremely dominant force during the qualification rounds. However, their success in eliminations will depend on how much they improve handling boulders and partnering up with someone who can help them gain captures.

1648 - 1648 is coming off a particularly painful loss in Columbus. Despite the fact that they were heavily impacted by the turf and communication issues, 1648 was still the best low-goaler at the event. Ultimately, no matter how bad 1648 wants the win, their success this weekend is going to rely on consistency. If they can keep their robot functional and active, they’re going to make another serious run in Albany.

4188 - 4188 is coming hot off their victory in Columbus. As the only scoring robot on their alliance, they played a crucial part in helping lead the #4 seed to success. However in Albany, 4188’s breaching abilities are going to be put to the test. 4188 will need a strong partner to help them breach and capture towers in eliminations, and the only way to guarantee that, is to breach during qualifications and secure the #1 seed.

1648 is excited to continue playing Stronghold at Albany with all these amazing teams and more! We're definitely hoping to improve on our Columbus performance. Can't wait to see everyone Thursday!

[JohnFogarty]

Though I personally won't be in Dalton this weekend. A team that both I and another even more seasoned veteran of FRC work with will be.

5632 is sporting a completely custom 8 wheel Chain-in-tube WCD that, thanks to the two Road to Einstein events, has been quite well tested on the defenses. With the addition of their breaching arm for the actuated defenses and some solid defensive driving strategies I've imparted on the drivers I fully well expect them to be a team worth watching. The students kept things simple for their first event focusing on defense crossing autonomous, solo breaching and courtyard defense. Expect to see some additions as the season progresses.

[MikeBrock]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

Though I personally won't be in Dalton this weekend. A team that both I and another even more seasoned veteran of FRC work with will be.

Are you concerned considering your other team has attended two events but hasn't made elims? There may be something you are teaching the drive teams that is leading to poor performance of what otherwise seems like a decent robot. I think you should check to make sure this isn't passed onto the other team. Just $0.02.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

5632 is sporting a completely custom 8 wheel Chain-in-tube WCD that, thanks to the two Road to Einstein events, has been quite well tested on the defenses.

Believe me when I say this, because I'm trying to be sincere:

I really hope the team understood the engineering and design considerations behind a Chain-in-tube setup We're doing a custom 10WD with Center-Center Chain-In-Tube, and we've already replaced both rails on our competition bot (one had a failure, and we just decided to replace the other while we were at it) during our unbag time this week. We're part of the reason Vex is out of stock of #25 16T sprockets, because we must've ordered 80 of them so that we could have enough for 2 robots, and 2 entire sets of rails to swap on the fly during competition. The Chain-in-tube is a beautiful work of engineering, and when it's designed properly it protects you from chain breaks. Even one forgotten spacer can leave you dead on the field, and were it not for our frame dimensions allowing us to run some chain outside of the tube, we may have had a rough saturday morning at the Columbus event. I really hope they put in the same consideration and effort into making spares and are ready to replace them when needed; especially in a game like FIRST Stronghold.

[JohnFogarty]

If you have a question about why 4901 had issues this season I'd be willing to discuss them in a PM. It had nothing to do with how I teach defensive driving strategy.

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

Believe me when I say this, because I'm trying to be sincere:

I really hope the team understood the engineering and design considerations behind a Chain-in-tube setup We're doing a custom 10WD with Center-Center Chain-In-Tube, and we've already replaced both rails on our competition bot (one had a failure, and we just decided to replace the other while we were at it) during our unbag time this week. We're part of the reason Vex is out of stock of #25 16T sprockets, because we must've ordered 80 of them so that we could have enough for 2 robots, and 2 entire sets of rails to swap on the fly during competition. The Chain-in-tube is a beautiful work of engineering, and when it's designed properly it protects you from chain breaks. Even one forgotten spacer can leave you dead on the field, and were it not for our frame dimensions allowing us to run some chain outside of the tube, we may have had a rough saturday morning at the Columbus event. I really hope they put in the same consideration and effort into making spares and are ready to replace them when needed; especially in a game like FIRST Stronghold.

Question. Why did your Chain-in-tube need spacers in the tube?

Both of my teams used a solution based on the 221 systems simple tube chassis and used 221 systems double 17 tooth hex bore sprockets. When placed in the tube between two bearings there is no room or need for spacers.

Not sure what your team did differently that lead to your issues.
5632 discovered issues in their drive chain weeks ago and since replacing it we've been able to drive for hours straight without breaking. The issue we had stemmed from not using high strength 25 chain. We have replacements ready to go regardless.

[sdcantrell56]

What diameter wheels and types of wheels are you guys running? Have you run any numbers on tooth strength or tension in the chain on such small sprockets? This game is particularly brutal compared to any year past so as Anupam says, be ready with backups.

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56

What diameter wheels and types of wheels are you guys running? Have you run any numbers on tooth strength or tension in the chain on such small sprockets? This game is particularly brutal compared to any year past so as Anupam says, be ready with backups.

8" diameter pneumatic wheels from a local source. The link below is the exact same wheel we use. We just didn't pay anything near that price to get them. Nor did we use the hubs pictured.

http://www.caremedicalsource.com/Sho...e-5-16-Bearing

I ran the numbers on tensioning. I didn't run any numbers on tooth strength. I'll say this. I've run 2 competitions already with the same chain in tube sprockets on 4901's robot. Beyond the problems both teams had to fix initially 4901 ran the entire Orlando regional without breaking chain once. I'm confident 5632, since implementing the same fixes that 4901 had to, won't experience any issues. The biggest issue we had with the 5632 machine was before we switched chain types was that when a driver would suddenly change directions it would cause the chain to catch and then literally rip the caught link apart.

Again, we are prepared with spares regardless.

[nighterfighter]

1771 is ready for Dalton. After a not-so-stellar 2015 year, we are hoping to recover.

Also quite happy to be at districts instead of regionals, to hopefully alleviate our historical slow start.



And personally I'm quite happy to see 1311 back in Georgia! Felt weird not seeing them at Peachtree for the last few years.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

If you have a question about why 4901 had issues this season I'd be willing to discuss them in a PM. It had nothing to do with how I teach defensive driving strategy.



Question. Why did your Chain-in-tube need spacers in the tube?

Both of my teams used a solution based on the 221 systems simple tube chassis and used 221 systems double 17 tooth hex bore sprockets. When placed in the tube between two bearings there is no room or need for spacers.

Not sure what your team did differently that lead to your issues.
5632 discovered issues in their drive chain weeks ago and since replacing it we've been able to drive for hours straight without breaking. The issue we had stemmed from not using high strength 25 chain. We have replacements ready to go regardless.

Good Question!
When we CADed our chain in tube rails, we decided to use 2x1.5 tubing instead of standard 2x1. We were afraid of fabrication errors and manufacturing tolerances, so we wanted to be on the safe side and let there be room for spacing. We also went with 16T sprockets and created custom double sprockets by milling the hubs off half of our 16T sprockets and using retaining compound to glue one hubbed sprocket and one hub-less sprocket together. Our failure came from missing a single 1/8" spacer for one of our shafts. This misalignment broke a chain in the tube, and we had to run chain on the outside of the tube.

Good to know your team has replacement rails! I didn't think we had to use any of ours after our practice bot took quite the beating during driver practice, but $@#$@#$@#$@# happens.

[Anupam Goli]

Kinda brain-dumping here:

I've been told that there's no practice field at our 2nd district (Albany). Columbus didn't have one either.

If district events can be held in high school gyms and still have practice fields, How do we not have space for even a tower and some carpet at a venue that could host a small regional? I don't speak for everyone when I say this, but I sure as heck would be willing to donate a foot of pit space just to have space for a tower and some carpet in the corner of the venue. We'll probably have to find a wall to tape a goal outline on and do autonomous testing there, and if anyone complains, we'll just tell them "Sorry, we don't want to put untested autonomous out on the field, that's unsafe".

Can we pretty please, with a cherry on top, have a practice field for the State Championship?

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

Kinda brain-dumping here:

I've been told that there's no practice field at our 2nd district (Albany). Columbus didn't have one either.

If district events can be held in high school gyms and still have practice fields, How do we not have space for even a tower and some carpet at a venue that could host a small regional? I don't speak for everyone when I say this, but I sure as heck would be willing to donate a foot of pit space just to have space for a tower and some carpet in the corner of the venue. We'll probably have to find a wall to tape a goal outline on and do autonomous testing there, and if anyone complains, we'll just tell them "Sorry, we don't want to put untested autonomous out on the field, that's unsafe".

Can we pretty please, with a cherry on top, have a practice field for the State Championship?

Does Georgia not have spare defenses and a wooden tower?

At Waterbury they put the practice quarter field on the school's auditorium stage and it was good enough.

[kristinweiss]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Does Georgia not have spare defenses and a wooden tower?

We have 4 practice fields in the state, one of which used to always travel to the regional events, so I am very confused as to why not even part of a field is traveling to any of the district events.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by NorthernTaco

We have 4 practice fields in the state, one of which used to always travel to the regional events, so I am very confused as to why not even part of a field is traveling to any of the district events.

In Columbus, there wasn't room. I believe that is the case with the other venues as well. One of the complications of going to districts. I am not involved in these decisions. Feedback is a gift. Feel free to provide it to the appropriate people. They are truly trying to provide the best experience possible.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

In Columbus, there wasn't room. I believe that is the case with the other venues as well. One of the complications of going to districts. I am not involved in these decisions. Feedback is a gift. Feel free to provide it to the appropriate people. They are truly trying to provide the best experience possible.

At Columbus, I honestly think that the organizers could have at least fit a tower at the venue, if nothing else, with some creative organization. But the lack of ANY part of a practice field shouldn't be justified by the switch to districts. CHS Southern Virginia had a tower, with a scaling rung, with a partial batter, and a few defenses (IIRC). They were wooden, but it's better than nothing. Other regions do more.

I appreciate every single person who volunteers their time to FIRST and GA FIRST, but the lack of the practice fields seems to be misaligned with some of Georgia FIRST's other goals (see: the purpose of the Destination Einstein fields). I'm willing to write this off as a first-year thing, but I hope we can either have better venues for next year or use them more effectively.

And please please please have a practice field at Peachtree Champs.