Increasing tower strength for Championships.

[Michael Hill]

FIRST has, for a few years now, left some element of the game open to an increase of difficulty for championships. This year, it's tower strength. Do you think it will increase, and if so, to what level?

I was honestly surprised at how damaged we were able to get the tower with a good alliance in week 2. We were able to get it to a strength of -4 in one match. Now, for week 2, it was absolutely an exception rather than the rule. It seemed to almost never occur during qualifications (happened only a couple times in Pittsburgh), but in elims/playoffs, it's almost too easy with a well formed alliance. So again, given what we know now about how the game is being played, do you think the tower strength will increase for championships?

My guess is it gets increased to at least a strength of 10.

[who716]

i find it hard to believe they will change it just because of how rarely it happens but it always a possibility i would like to see it change for sure. maybe to even more ten 10 to something where it a game changer and not guaranteed every round.

[pandamonium]

I would like to see it changed for eliminations at champs but stay the same for quals.

[EricH]

We will see more clearly as the weeks progress. Captures are still rare--though there have been a few in quals, usually they're seen in semis and finals.

If the teams progress to where most matches on Saturday get very close, or succeed, I would expect a strengthening. If, on the other hand, captures remain a relative rarity outside of elims, and somewhat in elims, I'd expect anywhere from nothing to a 1-point weakening.

My prediction: 0-1 point increase.

[The other Gabe]

it's obviously too early to tell, but I dont think that getting the 8 boulders in is meant to be a goal meant only for the best of alliances. another part of the challenge is getting all 3 robots on the batter, which can be quite difficult for some teams

[NShep98]

At WPI elims the lowest I've seen the tower at is -7, so it may very well be possible.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by NShep98

At WPI elims the lowest I've seen the tower at is -7, so it may very well be possible.

Dang, videos of this available? Scoring 15(+) boulders is no easy feat.

[XaulZan11]

My fear is breaching will almost become trivial at the championship, where nearly all alliances will be able to do it unless they really screw something up.

[NShep98]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Dang, videos of this available? Scoring 15(+) boulders is no easy feat.

Make that -9: http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2016mawor_sf2m2

And with a rookie team, no less.

[Rick]

I feel both breaching and capture should be increased to 12 for championship (cross 4 defenses 3 times each - 3 lights are already there).

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

My fear is breaching will almost become trivial at the championship, where nearly all alliances will be able to do it unless they really screw something up.

It's already basically trivial at the regional level(for eliminations at least). I honestly wouldn't mind a update for champs where the health is increased to 3. Though I can imagine there would be a lot of outrage since it wasn't in the rules.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

It's already basically trivial at the regional level. I honestly wouldn't mind a update for champs where the health is increased to 3. Though I can imagine there would be a lot of outrage since it wasn't in the rules.

Depends which regional you're at.......

Yeah the beaching strength could be increased to three theoretically but it won't be, because they didn't put it in the rules. In terms of tower strength, I can see anywhere from 10 to 12, if they do anything at all.

[Chak]

Originally Posted by Rick

I feel both breaching and capture should be increased to 12 for championship (cross 4 defenses 3 times each - 3 lights are already there).

Increasing health for the defenses is way more game-changing than increasing the health of the tower. Increasing the health of the defenses implies that points will be awarded for the third crossing (if not, the rules will be less intuitive and even harder to understand). That increases the viability of breacher bots and render high goal shooters more obsolete. After all, crossing the low bar awards the same amount of points as scoring in the high goal. A big reason to go for the more difficult high goal shot is the unlimited points potential. Lifting the limit on crossing points will drastically change the nature of the game, unfairly devaluing high goal shooter strategies and rewarding breacher bot strategies, both decided with the original game in mind.
Increasing defenses' health is too much of a game changer. I don't think it will or should happen.

[Justin Montois]

Is breaching strength able to be changed as well as just tower?

If so, I agree, 3 crossings per defense wouldn't shock me. It's too easy right now.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

Is breaching strength able to be changed as well as just tower?

If so, I agree, 3 crossings per defense wouldn't shock me. It's too easy right now.

Nah, just the tower. Blue box in 3.1.4 is the only point in which the manual talks about fortifications.

Originally Posted by 3.1.4 The Tower

As the season progresses, TOWERS may become fortified to increase their starting STRENGTH. While the starting STRENGTH of a TOWER will not change between weeks of Regional or District Competition play, the starting STRENGTH of a TOWER may be changed for District Championship and/or FIRST Championship play. Teams will be notified of changes in the starting STRENGTH of a TOWER no later than the scheduled Team Update prior to the date of the event.