Boulders Over Position 2

[JesseK]

Correct, that was a tech foul for [G27].

The strategy overall is very tricky for the HP to pull off - if it glances off of a robot then it's a tech foul. We came very close to one because the HP had to push it out quickly due to the incoming scores - so he didn't notice 2363's bot right there. We also told the head ref we would try this strategy in that match so the refs wouldn't automatically presume the robots were kicking them across.

I also just realized we selected Ramparts for Position 2 that match... whoops...

[OccamzRazor]

We do have some video of our human player doing this over the rock wall, moat, ramparts, rough terrain, and even the Cheval. It takes practice but it works well.

At one point he was 3 inches from the goal. Look at the timer around 67 seconds left (match timer not video time) and you can see that boulder coming agonizingly close to the goal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MRt...ature=youtu.be

We discussed the rules about it on this thread as well:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=145485

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by OccamzRazor

At one point he was 3 inches from the goal. Look at the timer around 67 seconds left (match timer not video time) and you can see that boulder coming agonizingly close to the goal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MRt...ature=youtu.be

Link is broken.

[OccamzRazor]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Link is broken.

Sorry about that try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MRt...ature=youtu.be

[Chris is me]

This was a strategy my team (228) planned to implement at our Week 1 competition, and we tried to keep it reasonably quiet, but from the very first matches of the day teams were insisting on putting Category A / C defenses in Position 2 to block this strategy. I assumed that this was a well known strategy throughout FRC considering how instantly ubiquitous this defensive scheme was, but I guess some isolated events lack teams who tried it.

[PayneTrain]

Teams that don't put the A/C obstacle in position 2 get what's coming to them...

Unless the audience selection is an A/C and the other alliance has a robot that can 100% dead reckon the high goal in auto from position 4...

This game is fun.

[OccamzRazor]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Teams that don't put the A/C obstacle in position 2 get what's coming to them...

Unless the audience selection is an A/C and the other alliance has a robot that can 100% dead reckon the high goal in auto from position 4...

This game is fun.

Unless your human player can spin a boulder into the number 3 spot as well...he did that twice.

[TheSousaLife]

When I first brought this up with my group, they told me it was impossible to do, that you might only see it happening on accident. I'm glad to see that the CD community knows that this is a legitimate strategy and that it should be defended against as so.

[JesseK]

Had a thought last night - is it legal for a robot to hold the drawbridge or sally port open in order to allow balls to pass through in position 2?

Is it legal to hold the portcullis open?

It seems to me like it is.

Perhaps there is no good option...

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Is it legal for a robot to hold the drawbridge or sally port open in order to allow balls to pass through in position 2?

GDC could easily expand the scope of G40-1 to make it illegal.

[Beaker]

The Head Referee at Alamo deemed this action illegal, while referencing the rulings made at previous competitions regarding rolling a boulder under the low bar when it had no fabric.

[Apittiglio]

So is it illegal to by the hp's own power roll a boulder under the low bar. Assuming no robot helped the boulder get over the defense?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure

GDC could easily expand the scope of G40-1 to make it illegal.

Or a referee could just make up a rule declaring it illegal. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here - this is a somewhat regular occurrence this year, and I'm not sure why it isn't being talked about more. Referees made up rules about rolling boulders under the low bar when the fabric is damaged, most notably, but have made up other rules as well at scattered regionals. The game changes from event to event, and there's always a chance that an "oddball" strategy might just be made illegal on a whim. Refs aren't doing this maliciously or thoughtlessly; they're doing it to allow the game to be played a certain way, but it isn't always predictable. It's something teams have to be prepared for now, I guess.

[JesseK]

Q&A #958 will hopefully address multiple aspects of this strategy.