Boulders Over Position 2

[JesseK]

CHS Hampton Roads, Finals 2 was just uploaded to YouTube (thanks Triple Helix ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeguT-c1nd4

In it, our human player scores 2 boulders over position 2's Ramparts. If timing were slightly better, there probably would have been three over Position 2. In the video, boulders are at the top of the screen from the left side.

Does anyone else have video of this happening with Ramparts or other defenses? It was a surprising thing to be able to do in a live match, and it's not exactly something the average alliance expects to be a consideration when selecting defenses.

[Kyle Reese]

Originally Posted by JesseK

It was a surprising thing to be able to do in a live match, and it's not exactly something the average alliance expects to be a consideration when selecting defenses.

Whenever our drive team was choosing defenses for the opposing alliance to go through, we always kept this possibility in mind. We made sure in all of our matches that the number two slot was occupied by a Cheval de Frise or one of the category C defenses. I don't remember any matches at Tech Valley in which we could have employed this technique, so other teams must have been looking out for it as well. From watching other events, it seems that a decent number of teams have picked up on this, and it will become an even more rare occurrence as the season goes on.

Nonetheless, an impressive feat to behold. Curving the Boulder isn't the easiest thing to do. Good job on the technique!

[The Lucas]

Did the ref give a Tech Foul for it? The bottom right ref certainly waves a red flag right after it happened.

Cool to see it happen in a live match.

[Anthony Galea]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

Did the ref give a Tech Foul for it? The bottom right ref certainly waves a red flag right after it happened.

Cool to see it happen in a live match.

I think they were calling a foul for the red robot pushing a ball into the blue secret passage from the neutral zone.

[JesseK]

Correct, that was a tech foul for [G27].

The strategy overall is very tricky for the HP to pull off - if it glances off of a robot then it's a tech foul. We came very close to one because the HP had to push it out quickly due to the incoming scores - so he didn't notice 2363's bot right there. We also told the head ref we would try this strategy in that match so the refs wouldn't automatically presume the robots were kicking them across.

I also just realized we selected Ramparts for Position 2 that match... whoops...

[OccamzRazor]

We do have some video of our human player doing this over the rock wall, moat, ramparts, rough terrain, and even the Cheval. It takes practice but it works well.

At one point he was 3 inches from the goal. Look at the timer around 67 seconds left (match timer not video time) and you can see that boulder coming agonizingly close to the goal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MRt...ature=youtu.be

We discussed the rules about it on this thread as well:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=145485

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by OccamzRazor

At one point he was 3 inches from the goal. Look at the timer around 67 seconds left (match timer not video time) and you can see that boulder coming agonizingly close to the goal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MRt...ature=youtu.be

Link is broken.

[OccamzRazor]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Link is broken.

Sorry about that try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MRt...ature=youtu.be

[Chris is me]

This was a strategy my team (228) planned to implement at our Week 1 competition, and we tried to keep it reasonably quiet, but from the very first matches of the day teams were insisting on putting Category A / C defenses in Position 2 to block this strategy. I assumed that this was a well known strategy throughout FRC considering how instantly ubiquitous this defensive scheme was, but I guess some isolated events lack teams who tried it.

[PayneTrain]

Teams that don't put the A/C obstacle in position 2 get what's coming to them...

Unless the audience selection is an A/C and the other alliance has a robot that can 100% dead reckon the high goal in auto from position 4...

This game is fun.

[OccamzRazor]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Teams that don't put the A/C obstacle in position 2 get what's coming to them...

Unless the audience selection is an A/C and the other alliance has a robot that can 100% dead reckon the high goal in auto from position 4...

This game is fun.

Unless your human player can spin a boulder into the number 3 spot as well...he did that twice.

[TheSousaLife]

When I first brought this up with my group, they told me it was impossible to do, that you might only see it happening on accident. I'm glad to see that the CD community knows that this is a legitimate strategy and that it should be defended against as so.

[JesseK]

Had a thought last night - is it legal for a robot to hold the drawbridge or sally port open in order to allow balls to pass through in position 2?

Is it legal to hold the portcullis open?

It seems to me like it is.

Perhaps there is no good option...

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Is it legal for a robot to hold the drawbridge or sally port open in order to allow balls to pass through in position 2?

GDC could easily expand the scope of G40-1 to make it illegal.

[Beaker]

The Head Referee at Alamo deemed this action illegal, while referencing the rulings made at previous competitions regarding rolling a boulder under the low bar when it had no fabric.