Boulders Over Position 2

[OccamzRazor]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Teams that don't put the A/C obstacle in position 2 get what's coming to them...

Unless the audience selection is an A/C and the other alliance has a robot that can 100% dead reckon the high goal in auto from position 4...

This game is fun.

Unless your human player can spin a boulder into the number 3 spot as well...he did that twice.

[TheSousaLife]

When I first brought this up with my group, they told me it was impossible to do, that you might only see it happening on accident. I'm glad to see that the CD community knows that this is a legitimate strategy and that it should be defended against as so.

[JesseK]

Had a thought last night - is it legal for a robot to hold the drawbridge or sally port open in order to allow balls to pass through in position 2?

Is it legal to hold the portcullis open?

It seems to me like it is.

Perhaps there is no good option...

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Is it legal for a robot to hold the drawbridge or sally port open in order to allow balls to pass through in position 2?

GDC could easily expand the scope of G40-1 to make it illegal.

[Beaker]

The Head Referee at Alamo deemed this action illegal, while referencing the rulings made at previous competitions regarding rolling a boulder under the low bar when it had no fabric.

[Apittiglio]

So is it illegal to by the hp's own power roll a boulder under the low bar. Assuming no robot helped the boulder get over the defense?

[b.arci]

I did this in a practice match at Buckeye, but that was the only time the ramparts were in position 2. I didn't bother to try any other time... the situation was too high risk. I didn't want to clog up anything if I missed.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a powerful throw while still angling it? Or do you prefer to put a spin on it and how so? I've been experimenting, but I’m just wondering what some people have done to get it.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure

GDC could easily expand the scope of G40-1 to make it illegal.

Or a referee could just make up a rule declaring it illegal. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here - this is a somewhat regular occurrence this year, and I'm not sure why it isn't being talked about more. Referees made up rules about rolling boulders under the low bar when the fabric is damaged, most notably, but have made up other rules as well at scattered regionals. The game changes from event to event, and there's always a chance that an "oddball" strategy might just be made illegal on a whim. Refs aren't doing this maliciously or thoughtlessly; they're doing it to allow the game to be played a certain way, but it isn't always predictable. It's something teams have to be prepared for now, I guess.

[JesseK]

Q&A #958 will hopefully address multiple aspects of this strategy.

[OccamzRazor]

G40: A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s COURTYARD unless:
A. the ROBOT contacts the BOULDER within OUTER WORKS, and
B. the ROBOT completes its CROSSING (e.g. doesn’t completely back out of the OUTER WORKS into the NEUTRAL ZONE)

Or they could simply change the G40 rule from a ROBOT to an ALLIANCE. One simple word. Basically the robots can still hold open every defense that is not the low far flap from my interpretation. They did not anticipate good bowlers as human players getting the ball over the second and third defenses. I have seen videos where a human player rolled a ball under the low bar fabric on accident as a robot on the opposing alliance passes under it. An opposing alliance's robot is not clarified in that ruling and they did not get a foul. Honestly if a human player can get their timing down they deserve to get the ball over because it is not like any of that is easy.

Is it illegal to have impeccable timing?

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Q958

At our latest event, our Human Player bowled a BOULDER over the DEFENSE in position 2. We verified ahead of time with the head ref that it was legal since [G40] refers to ROBOTS. Is it legal for a ROBOT to hold a DEFENSE in a strategically-advantageous position (e.g. hold Drawbridge down) in order to facilitate this Human Player strategy? What if multiple BOULDERS go through and THEN the robot CROSSES the defense?

Originally Posted by GDC Answer

G40-1 only governs interactions with the Low Bar regarding the manipulation of DEFENSES for the purposes of allowing a DRIVE TEAM member to transfer BOULDERS into their opponent’s COURTYARD. If during this process (a DRIVE TEAM member transferring BOULDERS into their opponent's COURTYARD), however, the BOULDER makes contact with an ALLIANCE ROBOT along the way, G40 or G41 is then enforced; G40 if the ROBOT makes contact with a BOULDER outside the OUTER WORKS, and G41 if the ROBOT makes contact with a BOULDER inside the OUTER WORKS.

Cool - it's a very tricky strategy that requires good timing, but it's something to investigate considering most drawbridge CROSSES do not cycle a ball.