Is the FIRST District point system algorithm correct?

[JimWright949]

Hello all,

In the Mount Vernon district event a Qualification round was tied, the system then went to the tie breaking table and the ‘win’ was awarded to the blue alliance. In the district points for Mount Vernon however it does not show the 5 points for the win in the system.

Should teams who tie in the elimination round get points? I ask because it looks a bit funny having three teams with 30 points, three teams with 20 points, three teams with 10 points, and three teams with 5 points.

-Jim

[Chris is me]

Along similar lines - I've noticed small errors in how my team's district points are calculated. I believe my team is short 5 points for winning a semi-final match in a series we ultimately lost, but maybe I did the calculation wrong. I'm bringing this up here to ask - who should we direct inquiries about district point calculations to in order to verify these numbers? This would probably answer both of our questions.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Along similar lines - I've noticed small errors in how my team's district points are calculated. I believe my team is short 5 points for winning a semi-final match in a series we ultimately lost, but maybe I did the calculation wrong. I'm bringing this up here to ask - who should we direct inquiries about district point calculations to in order to verify these numbers? This would probably answer both of our questions.

The five points per match won are only given to the alliance that wins the series:

All Teams on the Alliance winning a particular playoff series, who participate in matches with their
robots, receive 5 points per match won. In most cases, this will usually mean Teams will receive 10
points at each of the Quarter Final, Semi-Final, and Final levels, unless a backup robot is called in to
play

Emphasis mine.

[Jscout11]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Along similar lines - I've noticed small errors in how my team's district points are calculated. I believe my team is short 5 points for winning a semi-final match in a series we ultimately lost, but maybe I did the calculation wrong. I'm bringing this up here to ask - who should we direct inquiries about district point calculations to in order to verify these numbers? This would probably answer both of our questions.

I believe only the winning alliance in the series receives points

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Steven Donow

The five points per match won are only given to the alliance that wins the series:



Emphasis mine.

Drat, thanks. Guess we gotta do better in quals at Rhode Island then. Thanks for clarifying; these new fangled "district points" confuse old schoolers like me.

At that point, though, why label it as "5 points per win" instead of just "10 per round advanced"?

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

At that point, though, why label it as "5 points per win" instead of just "10 per round advanced"?

Back-up bots.

[Anthony Galea]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

$@#$@#$@#$@#. Guess we gotta do better in quals at Rhode Island then. Thanks for clarifying; these new fangled "district points" confuse old schoolers like me.

At that point, though, why label it as "5 points per win" instead of just "10 per round advanced"?

A backup bot could be called in before match 3 of a semifinals series which they then win, meaning that the backup bot gets 5 points and the team they replaced gets 5 points.

[JimWright949]

Originally Posted by Jscout11

I believe only the winning alliance in the series receives points

EDIT: Ninja'd

So should we see in the points:
3 teams 30
3 teams 20
6 teams 10?

Not:
3 teams 30
3 teams 20
3 teams 10
3 teams 5


http://frc-districtrankings.firstins...2016/PNW/WAMOU

The alliance who won the tie breaker did go on to win the series. Shouldn't they have 10 points?

-Jim

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Drat, thanks. Guess we gotta do better in quals at Rhode Island then. Thanks for clarifying; these new fangled "district points" confuse old schoolers like me.

At that point, though, why label it as "5 points per win" instead of just "10 per round advanced"?

You only get points for matches you participate in. 9 times out of 10, it ends up being 10 points per round. However if your team was to break down, and a backup was called in your second or third semi-match, and your alliance advances, you would only get 5 points, and the backup would only get 5 points for that round.

[Jscout11]

Originally Posted by JimWright949

So should we see in the points:
3 teams 30
3 teams 20
6 teams 10?

The alliance who won the tie breaker did go on to win the series. Shouldn't they have 10 points?

-Jim

Yeah sorry, I was responding to Chris's question.

The manual says nothing about a tie that I'm aware of, but I would think it would just be treated like a win for the alliance that wins the tiebraker, meaning that alliance should get 10 points rather than 5.

[thatnameistaken]

Originally Posted by JimWright949

So should we see in the points:
3 teams 30
3 teams 20
6 teams 10?

Not:
3 teams 30
3 teams 20
3 teams 10
3 teams 5


http://frc-districtrankings.firstins...2016/PNW/WAMOU

The alliance who won the tie breaker did go on to win the series. Shouldn't they have 10 points?

-Jim

It looks that way, yes. The alliance in question is listed as 2-0 in the quarterfinals on First's official event page (http://frc-events.firstinspires.org/2016/WAMOU/playoffs), which would indicate that winning the tiebreaker counts as winning the match (which is what makes the most sense anyway).

[Jeffrafa]

Originally Posted by JimWright949

So should we see in the points:
3 teams 30
3 teams 20
6 teams 10?

The alliance who won the tie breaker did go on to win the series. Shouldn't they have 10 points?

I had noticed some point irregularities for playoff points awarded to alliances when tiebreakers came into effect. This is one of those cases, where the winning alliance should have 10 points for moving on (not 5), but the tiebreaker is not evaluated correctly by the district point system.

It turns out FIRST is aware of this, and for now is manually adding points to correct playoff tiebreakers. If you take a look at the team's point summary page (4915 for example), you will see 'Temporary Tiebreaker Adjustment" crediting +5 points, under manual corrections. These points show up in the team's total on the district ranking page, but do not show up in the points at that event.

[JimWright949]

Originally Posted by Jeffrafa

It turns out FIRST is aware of this, and for now is manually adding points to correct playoff tiebreakers. If you take a look at the team's point summary page (4915 for example), you will see 'Temporary Tiebreaker Adjustment" crediting +5 points, under manual corrections. These points show up in the team's total on the district ranking page, but do not show up in the points at that event.

Ahh! thanks.