How do I help my area move to districts?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by bkahl

HOWEVER, what this document does do is make a college student like me feel not welcome. The sheer tone of this is terribly off-putting.

I honestly don't see anything there that gives a "not welcome" tone. On the contrary, it starts with the command DO volunteer often and energetically.

A region (especially one that is hoping/should be hoping to move to districts) should always be actively seeking volunteers. Beyond the active seeking of volunteers, they should be actively training new people to fill new jobs, as more events will require more key volunteers.

Isn't that what the document is about? It is a guide for how you should work toward becoming whatever kind of volunteer you want. It makes that explicit in the first paragraph.

Furthermore, I have countless friends my age, or just older than me, that ARE key volunteers in their areas (FTAs, Refs, planning committee members). There is no reason to discourage a student from seeking a position like this. While not every college student is a Dave Givens, we can (apparently contrary to popular belief) be good leaders and hold important positions.

Seriously, what's going on that I am not seeing? Every Key Volunteer I know was a "regular" volunteer for at least a couple of years first. That's what the document is saying. It isn't telling anyone not to aspire to a Key Volunteer position. What it's telling people is how to become a Key Volunteer.

[ATannahill]

I have to ask, how many volunteers see teams only when they are smiling?

As an inspector and ref (and a CSA, but I am unsure if the intended audience of the document would be eligible for that position) I have had to tell teams things that were at the very least disappointing. Things like "You received a foul because your robot extended too high in that match" or "Your bumpers do not meet the 8 inch requirement, you need to make them larger or build new ones". According to the document something needed to change after I made those statements because someone on the team frowned. I guess that means I screwed up and that puts my quest to be a LRI or Head Ref back one or two years of volunteering in a lower profile position. As important as the safety glasses table position is, to move someone there from inspecting will probably make them frown.

I know I am applying the document somewhat harshly, but for someone who has never been a volunteer, I would be scared to tell a team any bad news.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I honestly don't see anything there that gives a "not welcome" tone. On the contrary, it starts with the command DO volunteer often and energetically.



Isn't that what the document is about? It is a guide for how you should work toward becoming whatever kind of volunteer you want. It makes that explicit in the first paragraph.



Seriously, what's going on that I am not seeing? Every Key Volunteer I know was a "regular" volunteer for at least a couple of years first. That's what the document is saying. It isn't telling anyone not to aspire to a Key Volunteer position. What it's telling people is how to become a Key Volunteer.

I tell ya, kids these days...

Wait, crap.

[Ilovepineapples]

Originally Posted by Collin Fultz

What volunteer roles have you served in the past?

Volunteer #1: I am a volunteer who has been trained in a key position and served as a diligent volunteer spending hundreds of dollars in hotel costs who is now told I can only run safety glasses and the practice field. Without anyone telling me what changed or why I can't serve in my key position.

Volunteer #2: I'm an alumni that can run and coordinate a district event when I'm at college but when I travel home I can only run safety glasses.

Volunteer #3: I'm a graduate from a FRC team in Minnesota who has volunteered as field reset for four years after graduating but still isn't given any other field position no matter how many times I ask.

Volunteer #4: I'm a volunteer who registered to help queue but I'm told there are not any positions available, followed by an email to coaches the next day requesting more queuers to volunteer.

Volunteer #5: I am a volunteer who has been a robot inspector since graduating high school 6 years ago. In Minnesota I have expressed interest in FTAing, CSAing and score keeping but have never been assigned. I then am offered spots as a FTA or CSA in other areas around the United States.

Volunteer #6: As a student, I was spoken to about my social media posts, as they were showing MN FIRST in a bad light and told to delete what I posted. Now I've only been offered spots as Field Reset.

This is a small sampling of volunteer stories from the Minnesota Regionals.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I don't see anything disturbing or off-putting about that document. It seems quite reasonable to me. It basically says not to think that you "deserve" a Key Volunteer position before you've demonstrated yourself, and suggests how you can go about doing that. Unless there's something else that people are being told beyond what it says, I do not understand why anyone would be upset by it.

It's a combination of what this document says and what is actually happening with the intended audience of this document (which I assume is the GOFIRST group at the University of Minnesota).

There's been friction between the alumni of MN FIRST and the RPC. A big point of contention here is the current double-regional event format of Minnesota. The young alumni want to switch to districts, and want to get involved and start the conversation and the planning required to get there. Everyone is aware this is a big undertaking that requires several years to implement right. However, the leadership in MN is very attached to their double regional format, knowing they run the "biggest and best" regionals in the country. The alumni want to get their teams more bang for their buck, but the RPC doesn't want to lose the media attention for FIRST that these events gain. Of course, on top of this, there are the normal concerns that everyone has with transitioning to districts (finding venues, volunteers, etc). Due to all of these factors, it appears that the RPC believes their current system to be superior, and therefore does not want to pursue transitioning to districts at all.

Like Bailey said, one of the few ways that college students can reasonably stay involved in FRC is volunteering. However, students who sign up to volunteer are repeatedly being assigned to more menial, untrained roles or just being told that they're not needed. A dear friend of mine (who already had previous experience volunteering as an inspector in New England), was assigned to the practice field. When she showed up to the regional, the volunteer desk was empty. After tracking one of the event staff down, she was told they had enough volunteers for that day, and she should come back tomorrow.

Honestly, the purpose of this document seems to be to deter any of these alumni from believing that they could make a real difference in the direction Minnesota is heading. The overall message seems to be this; "Play by our rules, listen to everything we say, and don't say anything about it."

Now this may sound cynical, but this is how I'm reading this document given the situation. Each number refers to the subsequent DO and DONT in the letter.

1. If you really care about FRC, you'll do whatever volunteer position we assign you to, regardless of what you aspire to be.

2. This seems to be specifically targeting the fact that college students will often have class on Wednesday and Thursday.

3. Do whatever the RPC and existing KVs tell you to do.

4. Don't talk about any of this publicly, no matter how discontent you are.

5. If you do volunteer, always do what your Key Volunteer superior says.

6. Don't expect to get a more important volunteering position anytime soon.

7. Re 6: Probably at least 6+ years before you're a key volunteer.

8. Now this is the real kicker. Many of these disgruntled alumni have been switching to volunteering for FLL and FTC events, and have been much happier since. A different nonprofit organization, High Tech Kids, is the FIRST partner for FLL and FTC in Minnesota. Many young alumni agree this group is more effectively run. There have been talks of HTH and MN FIRST merging, as MN FIRST does not have nonprofit status necessary for MN to switch to districts. However, there's rumors that this merger is halted due to conflicting opinions over who would actually be in charge after the merger. This paragraph is basically saying "Don't expect MN FIRST to be like High Tech Kids."

9. Most of the kids who want to continue supporting FRC are enthusiastic about the program. This is basically telling these kids that they need to tone down their enthusiasm if they want to volunteer?

10. So you screwed up...
This seems pretty clear to me. If you don't play by the rules, you're not getting any volunteer positions past field reset or practice field.


Yes, a lot of what is in this document is generally good advice for new volunteers. However, given the scenario, this basically seems like a letter from the dictatorship telling the people to not challenge their authority.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by Ilovepineapples

I am a volunteer who has been trained in a key position and served as a diligent volunteer spending hundreds of dollars in hotel costs who is now told I can only run safety glasses and the practice field. Without anyone telling me what changed or why I can't serve in my key position.

I'm an alumni that can run and coordinate a district event when I'm at college but when I travel home I can only run safety glasses.

I'm a graduate from a FRC team in Minnesota who has volunteered as field reset for four years after graduating but still isn't given any other field position no matter how many times I ask.

I'm a volunteer who registered to help queue but I'm told there are not any positions available, followed by an email to coaches the next day requesting more queuers to volunteer.

I am a volunteer how has been a robot inspector since graduating high school 6 years ago. In Minnesota I have expressed interest in FTAing, CSAing and score keeping but have never been assigned. I then am offered spots as a FTA or CSA in other areas around the United States.

As a student, I was spoken to about my social media posts, as they were showing MN FIRST in a bad light and told to delete what I posted. Now I've only been offered spots as Field Reset.

This is a small sampling of volunteer stories from the Minnesota Regionals.

I am very confused. I feel like I asked a fairly easy question to answer. The answer will help form my answer to the original question.

Perhaps I was asking too much from an account that uses a fake name?

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by RoboAlum

Collin would you give some advice to us, we want to follow the way Indiana went to districts we have 50 teams now and have growth potential but all schools see are the outrageous dollar signs. As for me I was the head of the planning committee for our off-season event and we realized that by training our seniors and alumni in volunteer roles as well as getting help from the local Air Force base we were able to fill the volunteer positions quickly but our biggest downfall is getting more teams in our area that will do FRC.

Hi - Great question. You're absolutely right that the investment in FRC can be overwhelming to some.

Your experiences are a great start. Hopefully your off-season event was a success.

Perhaps the largest initial hurdle is a state (or district) wide 501c3 non-profit who can act as the "Headquarters" for FIRST in that state. In Indiana, that non-profit is IndianaFIRST. FIRST HQ signs a Memorandum of Understanding with that organization, who then executes FRC in the area.

That non-profit has to show FIRST that I can represent the interests of teams in the entire area, as well as fundraise enough to support events and a local staff. How large that staff is varies by area.

My suggested first step: Start holding district information sessions at your regionals and off-season events. Listen to feedback from people. Shockingly, most people involved in FIRST are not on Chief Delphi. Odds are that there are many in your area that don't understand what "Districts" are. Also, be prepared for pushback. There will be some who do not see this as a net positive for them. As an example, in Indiana, many of the teams around the Chicago area were used to going to the Midwest Regional as their "home" regional. So the whole "this will save travel costs" argument didn't really apply to them. We, as IndianaFIRST, need to take that into consideration.

Please, continue to ask good questions. There are lots of people here to help.

Thank you!

-CF

[rzoeller]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I don't see anything disturbing or off-putting about that document. It seems quite reasonable to me. It basically says not to think that you "deserve" a Key Volunteer position before you've demonstrated yourself, and suggests how you can go about doing that. Unless there's something else that people are being told beyond what it says, I do not understand why anyone would be upset by it.

I'd like to start by stating that these are my own thoughts and opinions, and do not necessarily reflect the views of any groups I am or have been a part of.

I was a student at the presentation at which this document was distributed. In my opinion, the document itself is not inherently negative and would not, on its own, make me feel unwelcome or uncomfortable volunteering as a part of Minnesota FIRST. That being said, the context in which the document was distributed made me feel uncomfortable and has discouraged me from seeking volunteer roles as an official regional volunteer.

As a student who attended the presentation, I was surprised for several reasons. The meeting at which the presentation occurred was part of a regular sequence of meetings in which university faculty and outside corporate employees give talks about their work. That particular meeting had been advertised as a "an inside look into life as an engineer and success after college from *speaker name redacted* who works at *company name redacted*", and was something I had genuinely looked forward to based on the extensive industry experience the speaker seemed to have and my interest in the company they work at. Unfortunately, once the meeting began it quickly changed focus to discussing FIRST volunteer feedback.

Overall, the demeanor of the meeting felt very negative towards volunteers, specifically college age students. Perhaps I misunderstood the speaker's intentions, but as someone who was on an MN FRC team in high school and was looking forward to potentially volunteering at a Minnesota regional, the impression that I left with was that the authors of the document felt college students were likely to screw up and should not be trusted with positions of responsibility. There was a strong emphasis (at least in my opinion) that we were unable to separate our volunteering from our past connections in FIRST, and that we shouldn't expect to be given any meaningful positions due to our age.

I hope to volunteer for FIRST in the future, but unless things change, I doubt it will be in Minnesota.

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by Ilovepineapples

I am a volunteer who has been trained in a key position and served as a diligent volunteer spending hundreds of dollars in hotel costs who is now told I can only run safety glasses and the practice field. Without anyone telling me what changed or why I can't serve in my key position.

I'm an alumni that can run and coordinate a district event when I'm at college but when I travel home I can only run safety glasses.

I'm a graduate from a FRC team in Minnesota who has volunteered as field reset for four years after graduating but still isn't given any other field position no matter how many times I ask.

I'm a volunteer who registered to help queue but I'm told there are not any positions available, followed by an email to coaches the next day requesting more queuers to volunteer.

I am a volunteer how has been a robot inspector since graduating high school 6 years ago. In Minnesota I have expressed interest in FTAing, CSAing and score keeping but have never been assigned. I then am offered spots as a FTA or CSA in other areas around the United States.

As a student, I was spoken to about my social media posts, as they were showing MN FIRST in a bad light and told to delete what I posted. Now I've only been offered spots as Field Reset.

This is a small sampling of volunteer stories from the Minnesota Regionals.

I'm in Michigan and am a college senior (you know all the warnings to freshman about overextending? the warning really should be to seniors). I'm lead mentor for 1 FTC team and 1 FRC team, and was head ref at an FLL event and ref at FTC state champs. If I wasn't so busy right now, I would strongly consider being an FRC ref as well (and probably will next year).

From my same university is another senior who is now an FTA (and the only one based in the UP). Other college students there have been CSAs, lead queuer, defense coordinator, head ref, emcee/game announcer, and maybe safety adviser?

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Collin Fultz

What volunteer roles have you served in the past?

Originally Posted by Ilovepineapples

I am a volunteer who has been trained in a key position and served as a diligent volunteer spending hundreds of dollars in hotel costs who is now told I can only run safety glasses and the practice field. Without anyone telling me what changed or why I can't serve in my key position.

I'm an alumni that can run and coordinate a district event when I'm at college but when I travel home I can only run safety glasses.

I'm a graduate from a FRC team in Minnesota who has volunteered as field reset for four years after graduating but still isn't given any other field position no matter how many times I ask.

I'm a volunteer who registered to help queue but I'm told there are not any positions available, followed by an email to coaches the next day requesting more queuers to volunteer.

I am a volunteer how has been a robot inspector since graduating high school 6 years ago. In Minnesota I have expressed interest in FTAing, CSAing and score keeping but have never been assigned. I then am offered spots as a FTA or CSA in other areas around the United States.

As a student, I was spoken to about my social media posts, as they were showing MN FIRST in a bad light and told to delete what I posted. Now I've only been offered spots as Field Reset.

This is a small sampling of volunteer stories from the Minnesota Regionals.

Looks like this person was a robot inspector for many years in the past (bold), wants to be a queuer or something else if they can't be an RI (underlined), but has grown weary of the scenario they have to deal with in terms of the what the RPC in Minnesota "operates" (under the guidance of HQ as they are not an independent NPC).

I don't operate anywhere close to Minnesota and I will not speculate what may or may not be happening but if it looks like x and smells like x, I don't want to see if it tastes like x.

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by Collin Fultz

I am very confused. I feel like I asked a fairly easy question to answer. The answer will help form my answer to the original question.

Can you suspend your disbelief and assume that these are independent stories that correspond to some number of actual people? Is it possible to form an answer then?

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure

Can you suspend your disbelief and assume that these are independent stories that correspond to some number of actual people? Is it possible to form an answer then?

You know how in real life you have a conversation with someone but they don't listen to you, but just hear enough to make some counterpoint that is just supposed to put you on your heels?

It's really annoying in all media of communication but it is especially silly on the internet when some sort of on demand text or audiovisual conversation can be guided at will.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Maybe this thread is trolling, but I honestly do not see the document in a negative light. Basically, I see it as setting reasonable expectations for volunteers.

Don,

I agree with you that most everything in that document is technically correct and I'm sure it was well intentioned attempt to level set expectations.

However, I think it also comes across as tone deaf. Do you sell FRC to incoming freshman by saying, "Well, our robot is probably going to be a box on wheels for a few years, and you won't get a chance to do any of the limited cool work on the team until maybe your senior year."?

[AlecMataloni]

Originally Posted by Ilovepineapples

I am a volunteer who has been trained in a key position and served as a diligent volunteer spending hundreds of dollars in hotel costs who is now told I can only run safety glasses and the practice field. Without anyone telling me what changed or why I can't serve in my key position.

I'm an alumni that can run and coordinate a district event when I'm at college but when I travel home I can only run safety glasses.

I'm a graduate from a FRC team in Minnesota who has volunteered as field reset for four years after graduating but still isn't given any other field position no matter how many times I ask.

I'm a volunteer who registered to help queue but I'm told there are not any positions available, followed by an email to coaches the next day requesting more queuers to volunteer.

I am a volunteer how has been a robot inspector since graduating high school 6 years ago. In Minnesota I have expressed interest in FTAing, CSAing and score keeping but have never been assigned. I then am offered spots as a FTA or CSA in other areas around the United States.

As a student, I was spoken to about my social media posts, as they were showing MN FIRST in a bad light and told to delete what I posted. Now I've only been offered spots as Field Reset.

This is a small sampling of volunteer stories from the Minnesota Regionals.

All of these stories are very troubling.

I hope that enough complaints from alumni in the state will change the attitudes of these individuals running the show up in MN. Maybe the "Rulers" of MN FIRST will realize they're shooting themselves in the foot by treating prospective volunteers this way.

[angelah]

Originally Posted by paunatime

In fact, young adults just out of FIRST are some of the most passionate and empathetic to the needs and challenges facing teams.

Yes, usually the kindest to students, and also professional and competent. It's awesome to see some of these college students in Michigan excelling in key positions!