How do I help my area move to districts?

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Dude, your post was probably the least productive of them all.

The thread is discussing potential issues holding back MN FIRST from districts, exactly what the OP wanted. What else do you want to make this more productive?

Discussion generally involves two sides. If there was an honest attempt an engaging the issues preventing Minnesota from transitioning, that would be one thing. Rather, this thread is largely piling on against an absent second party. There is little point in continuing to pour on hearsay and anonymous bashing until MN FIRST gives their side of the story.


More generally, while the OP linked a document specific to Minnesota, this thread is not simply about Minnesota. My post, quoted in the OP, is about districts in general. There is a potential use for this thread regarding what logistics are involved in the creation and administration of districts, and how concerned teams and individuals can assist in the transition from a regional system to a district system. That is the type of productive conversation that should be happening. Mud slinging is not productive.

[gblake]

A couple more cents from me:

There is way too much fussing in this thread about what any one volunteer is/isn't happy to do in any one year, and not nearly enough discussion about both the (really large) number of important roles in a District, and how to consistently fill all of those important roles year after year, for the next decade and beyond.

Blake

[Pauline Tasci]

Originally Posted by gblake

A couple more cents from me:

There is way too much fussing in this thread about what any one volunteer is/isn't happy to do in any one year, and not nearly enough discussion about both the (really large) number of important roles in a District, and how to consistently fill all of those important roles year after year, for a decade or longer.

Blake

The key to running any event is making sure you're not incredibly condescending to one of your largest sources of volunteers.
Key volunteers are not those that need to be in the positions for "decades." To have a sustainable program you need to constantly be training people and have them fill necessary positions. Districts are about sustainability, and with that you cannot rely on people who you expect to always be there, but have enough people trained in those roles that many people could fill in key roles. The biggest market for that is FIRST alumni.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by gblake

A couple more cents from me:

There is way too much fussing in this thread about what any one volunteer is/isn't happy to do in any one year, and not nearly enough discussion about both the (really large) number of important roles in a District, and how to consistently fill all of those important roles year after year, for a decade or longer.

Blake

I think I touched upon this earlier. One of the key things the document seems to be discouraging (in my PERSONAL opinion), is the active training of new people to fill roles, especially key roles. The document seems to state that if you want a key position, or one with responsibility, you have to wait your turn.

Maybe the following is more along the lines of what Sean is looking for in this thread.

As a participant in the districts system for my third year now, I have seen new key volunteers with every event I have gone too. This is what is key to the expansion into the District Model.

In New England, we grew from 5 Regionals to 10 Districts and a District Championship, more than doubling the events. This obviously requires more volunteers. The first year was rough on the volunteers, many people going weeks in a row in their positions because no one in their area/state else knew them. Now, I have seen new referees, FTAs, Head Referees, Inspectors, and Committee members. This new generation of volunteers is the future of the region, trained and mentored by the key volunteers before them. This is pleasing, especially since many of these new volunteers are friends and peers.

Back to what i find concerning.... The document linked provides a negative shadow over exactly what I have described as one of the main reasons I think New England Districts are beginning to operate so well; a new young generation of volunteers helping to run and sustain our region. If Minnesota can open its doors to something like this, I think the region will greatly benefit from it. If they begin training this new set of volunteers now in more positions, a District Model transition will go very smooth, with enough volunteers to help run the necessary events.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Face it: You're not going to be a LRI the first or second year you volunteer, particularly if you are under 21. But be an RI for 2 years, shadow the LRI one year, and then speak to your LRI and VC and see what they can do. If that's what you want, you can do it.

Over here in Michigan we currently have 5 college student FTAs, including a sophomore and a junior, both under 21. This year two college students were asked to be an EC (they declined on account of being busy college students). College students have been CSAs, I can think of at least one who's been a HR, MCs.. I think we're doing pretty okay. It's ridiculous to use age as a big negative factor in volunteers, especially when you complain at the same time of too few volunteers.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by paunatime

The key to running any event is making sure you're not incredibly condescending to one of your largest sources of volunteers.
Key volunteers are not those that need to be in the positions for "decades." To have a sustainable program you need to constantly be training people and have them fill necessary positions. Districts are about sustainability, and with that you cannot rely on people who you expect to always be there, but have enough people trained in those roles that many people could fill in key roles. The biggest market for that is FIRST alumni.

I understand all of that. It doesn't contradict what I wrote in either of my earlier posts.

Also, "how to consistently fill all of those important roles year after year, for the next decade and beyond." doesn't mean the same thing as having one person in any given role "for 'decades'".

My consistent point is, service *before* self.

Blake

[Munchskull]

MN should start by giving their volunteers the respect they deserve. Odds are that if you have a volunteer that is college aged, they themselves are FRC/FTC alumni. If they are coming back it means they love FIRST. Other regions and districts thrive from their alumni no reason MN can't.

When it comes to the argument that they will not have enough volunteers, I find that plain wrong. Granted I do not live in MN nor have ever been to the events, but from my experience, if you have the event, volunteera will come. Here in PNW I know that we have had students from teams competing at the event take volunteer positions such as field reset and robot queing. Local teams will help with setup and takedown.

Let the college age students handle key roles at district events. They are adults, MN should treat them like it. The only reason I can imagine that MN would not have enough volunteers for districta is because letters like this are driving them away.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by bkahl

I think I touched upon this earlier. One of the key things the document seems to be discouraging (in my PERSONAL opinion), is the active training of new people to fill roles, especially key roles. The document seems to state that if you want a key position, or one with responsibility, you have to wait your turn.

Maybe the following is more along the lines of what Sean is looking for in this thread.

As a participant in the districts system for my third year now, I have seen new key volunteers with every event I have gone too. This is what is key to the expansion into the District Model.

In New England, we grew from 5 Regionals to 10 Districts and a District Championship, more than doubling the events. This obviously requires more volunteers. The first year was rough on the volunteers, many people going weeks in a row in their positions because no one in their area/state else knew them. Now, I have seen more referees, FTAs, Head Referees, Inspectors, and Committee members as we progress further into the system. This is pleasing, especially since many of these new volunteers are friends and peers.

Back to what i find concerning.... The document linked provides a negative shadow over exactly what I have described as one of the main reasons I think New England Districts are beginning to operate so well; a new young generation of volunteers helping to run and sustain our region. If Minnesota can open its doors to something like this, I think the region will greatly benefit from it. If they begin training this new set of volunteers now in more positions, a District Model transition will go very smooth, with enough volunteers to help run the necessary events.

I wrote that folks should be discussing how to consistently fill important roles, instead of talking about themselves.

I wrote that folks who feel they are in different camps need to flush the past, and start talking to each other (not sniping in forums).

Are you disagreeing with those two suggestions?

Blake

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by gblake

I wrote that folks should be discussing how to consistently fill important roles.

I wrote that folks who feel they are in different camps need to flush the past and start talking to each other (not sniping in forums).

Are you disagreeing with those two suggestions?

Blake

Nope, just trying to steer away from hearsay and get to productive discussion on how to bring MN FIRST to the next level.

I believe you and I are in agreement that something has to be done in order to fill the requirement of more volunteer positions in a district model. I suggested trying out what my region has done, and others like FIM, which is training a new generation of volunteers.

This new generation is ready to go and even organized into their own organization at GO FIRST. There does, however, seem to be some concerning relationships between them and their region, as shown by the letter linked by the OP.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Recruiting Volunteers 101 - What Not To Do -

Include a section in your recruitment material called "So you screwed up..."

Who thought that was a good idea?

Also - Where else are people supposed to bring up issues they've encountered from their personal experiences in Minnesota when they don't feel they're being taken seriously? Some other public FIRST forum made for discussing these issues? (I'd love to see a post on r/FRC on this.) Nah let's just not talk about anything and keep everything as-is because that's how FIRST grows & improves right?

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Munchskull

MN should start by giving their volunteers the respect they deserve. ....

Who is this "MN" you speak of, if not a group of hard-working and dedicated, in-it-for-the-long-haul volunteers?

Was the "MN" in your post maybe the OP, and the other Minnesota folks who were annoyed by the roles they filled or didn't fill at events? Were they the group you called "MN"? Is that group failing to give other volunteers the respect those other volunteers deserve?

Bottom line: When you think about things from more than one viewpoint, sometimes you notice interesting stuff.

Blake

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

Recruiting Volunteers 101 - What Not To Do -

Include a section in your recruitment material called "So you screwed up..."

Who thought that was a good idea?

Showing a tolerance for mistakes is something that you should do when trying to get people to participate in a role with responsibility.
Albeit the header was poorly phrased, that section could have just been titled "accidents" or something.
The idea was fine the execution of it was horrible.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

Albeit the ENTIRE LETTER was poorly phrased

FTFY

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

Showing a tolerance for mistakes is something that you should do when trying to get people to participate in a role with responsibility.
Albeit the header was poorly phrased, that section could have just been titled "accidents" or something.
The idea was fine the execution of it was horrible.

I totally agree that tolerance is absolutely necessary. I've managed our volunteers for the past 2 years at the FRC off-season event that I founded and always make it a point to thank them all for giving up their personal time to help make our event run smoothly. None of this is possible without volunteers and we all make mistakes from time to time. We're all just trying to do our best at something we care a lot about.

I've never had volunteers 'screw up' enough to mandate an entire paragraph on what to do in case they 'screwed up.' Did a bunch of Minnesota college aged volunteers burn down a building or something? Seriously though what happened? I would think if you had a few isolated incidents that you would handle them privately and move on... instead they addressed it vaguely in a document and made everyone wonder 'oh boy, wonder what happened?'

[E3 Robotics Ctr]

I have gone from being on Teams, Mentoring, Judging, Coaching, and Running Tournaments now for JrFLL, FLL, FTC, and FRC.

I have been on both sides of the fence in this situation, so hopefully I can add something to this. While I don't know the whole background on what is happening in MN I know a bit of what has when on.

When I went to college I was then done mentoring and coaching some younger FLL teams. I was invited back as a volunteer for FLL events in our area. I was happy to help where ever I could. There was always roles I wanted, most of the time I was assigned something else. Looking back on it I was grateful, since I was able to work every volunteer spot before I took over as the FLL Tournament Director, which quickly expanding to several local school communities in the area. With this experience I feel I was better prepared to help serve the teams in my area.

I now know what I look for in my volunteers and what areas a person might best fit due to this experience. Looking at the "Do's and Don't" list they sent out, the info on there is valid, but at the same time I can see how some of the word selection comes across a bit brash and rough at times.

For me personally I love having college students help with any of my events. At the same time, for my Key Roles at any level of event I look for those with experience that I know of personally. As a tournament director if something goes wrong, even if someone else caused it, it comes back on you.
(Side Note: There is no such thing as a "perfect event", something will ALWAYS go wrong, it is how you handle that set back that makes your event good or not)
So when I look for those Key Role people I normal look for 21+ aged, with at least 2 years of experience, or know them from another event in which they did they same role, or if another Key Role person/Higher Ranking FIRST Person can back them up, I will feel comfortable giving them that position. When I have a someone that I do not feel is perfect for that Key Role position that they wanted, I will pair them up with that person that I know has experience. This way I can have some trained for the next event. (Those Key Volunteers wont be around forever you know!)


I know that my main background came from FLL and the JrFLL realm, since there was no FRC team at any of the local schools around me at the time, and FTC was not a thing yet.

I still got the chance to be tournament directors for both. And while I followed FRC since 2000 and FTC since it started I had not bee through any of the volunteering roles.

I will tell you, leading up to running a FRC and FTC tournament, I was at as many different tournaments I could get to, making connections, sitting in backrooms, talking to Judges, Volunteers, Key Roles, the Tournament Directors. And if that was not enough I was either emailing, calling, texting one of those people I had met at all of those event asking questions and getting answers and feedback. I went through every volunteer manual for FTC and FRC as well as all the online training that I could. I did not have the years to try out each of the roles at the event like I did for FLL/JrFLL. I learned as much as I could so I could run a successful event.

If I could go back and have time to work through all of the positions I certainly would have liked to do so, but running these events at all levels I can respect that each spot is very important to the tournament. (When you have people back out, or call off sick you realize how important those roles REALLY are)

I can say it is true that running a JrFLL, FLL, FTC, and FRC event is very different, each taking it's own set up and group of people to make it work. And each role is important at every event.


I guess my take away on this is, I am still not 30 and have experienced SO many more parts of FIRST Robotics than I ever would have thought. At the same time people that do not know me sometimes might look down on me due to my age, so I get the whole "Don't write me off, just because I am young!" thing. And on the other hand I see people within our generation wanting "Instant Gratification" to what they want. With both of these being said I know that neither is what we want to strive for within FIRST we have to keep in mind those Core Values they instill within us.

If you are able to get certain Key Roles at certain events, that is Awesome! Keep up the good work and keep helping out with those events! At the same time there will be events where you won't get the Role you want, be happy to help with anything. Like Carolyn said, those that come in early to help and stay late to pack up are some of the biggest help! I know if I need any last minute help my Key Volunteers are always the first to help, and those others that show they are there to help as well, even if they might not have a Key Role, I DO take note of that.

So keep volunteering, and know that every time you help is important, and I hope the discord within MN improves and Districts is possible for you in the near future. I know when IN switched last year to Districts it has set FRC in IN on a new path which has been a pretty great improvement. It was a great effort by IndianaFIRST to get everything in order to ensure it worked smoothly.


- Brian Boehler