How do I help my area move to districts?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Solomon,
I am trying to understand your viewpoint. Can you explain the difference you see in the two messages addressing volunteers...
GuamFIRST staffs our events with people who volunteer often and energetically.
DO volunteer often and energetically.

or


In your personal communications (including social media), maintain an awareness of how
your voice may be heard by your audience.
When not at an event, be aware that everything you do reflects
on FIRST. This is especially true with social media – Tweets, posts, or blogs can easily cause
issues for volunteers. Stay positive, think about how your post will be perceived,

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Shrub

Ryan explained the context in full here. I do not know and cannot vouch if Bison Robotics received a similar presentation, and although I know GOFIRST members and participated in GOFIRST's Ri3d, that was my first time seeing the letter.

Originally Posted by bkahl

Was distributed at a presentation by a guest speaker of sorts.

I'll just post Sean's followup for him: What about this presentation indicated this was a MN FIRST document? Was the presenter a representative of MN FIRST? The document itself is seems entirely generic outside of the introductory paragraph.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by CalTran

I think the difference is goals that teams and organizations have. Generally, a team's prerogative is to compete and qualify for the FIRST World Championships (Admittedly, who doesn't want to qualify for that?), whereas the RPCs want to maximize the amount of matches and experience overall for teams. The disconnect, it seems, is the work it takes to be successful in a District model. (Things like time, necessary steps to qualify for Worlds, etc.)

Regionals seem better for teams because it looks "easier" to qualify for the World Championships.
Districts are better from an "experience" standpoint because it gets teams the nearly double the amount of matches (or triple if you qualify for District Championships followed by World Championships).

I can tell you that districts have made it easier for my team to qualify for the World Championship(s). Where before we had to win an event to qualify, now we just have to rely on good performance to qualify.

This "it adds one more level to be able to qualify" comes from people that don't understand how districts work.

To answer the original question about how you can help. One of the original goals of the Rumble in the Roads offseason event was to prove to VA FIRST that our area could support district events. We wanted to use our offseason event to grow our local volunteer base and show that an even that size could be hosted in the area.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.That one was a good one. I almost thought you were being serious for a moment.

[IMG]

No way man, I'm just here to make troll posts that drive people away from CD, and keep certain parties out of relevant discussions. I have never provided anything of value like the fine upstanding people in this thread and FIRST abroad that also just happen to have more experience in FIRST and the industry™. The team I coach for is invalid because it is run partially by some snot-nosed 21 year old brat that won't shut up and let the olde--smarter people talk. Sorry, everyone.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

I can tell you that districts have made it easier for my team to qualify for the World Championship(s). Where before we had to win an event to qualify, now we just have to rely on good performance to qualify.

This "it adds one more level to be able to qualify" comes from people that don't understand how districts work.

With a select few exceptions, it does add an additional level to be able to qualify. Very few teams are able to gather enough points in their first two events to not need additional points at their DCMP to reach CMP. For budget conscious teams, there is a significant additional cost associated with having to compete three times prior to CMP rather than just once.

I don't think that concern outweighs the benefit of districts in most regions, but it is a legitimate concern.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

I can tell you that districts have made it easier for my team to qualify for the World Championship(s). Where before we had to win an event to qualify, now we just have to rely on good performance to qualify.

This "it adds one more level to be able to qualify" comes from people that don't understand how districts work.

Oh, I completely agree that Districts are the way to go. Districts, in the best way that I've heard them described "promote consistency over moments of brilliance." At the very least, you aren't paying some $600 a match.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

With a select few exceptions, it does add an additional level to be able to qualify. Very few teams are able to gather enough points in their first two events to not need additional points at their DCMP to reach CMP. For budget conscious teams, there is a significant additional cost associated with having to compete three times prior to CMP rather than just once.

I don't think that concern outweighs the benefit of districts in most regions, but it is a legitimate concern.

My point was supposed to be that it is not inherently harder to qualify in the district model than in the regional model.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Considering the letter discussion has continued to dominate this thread (to my dismay), I do have a question. How was the letter published/distributed? Was it posted on a MN FIRST website for prospective volunteers? Was it e-mailed to all volunteers on the VC's list? Was it emailed to a specific group of volunteers? Was it released for public consumption at all?

I invite any members of GOFIRST who were actually attending the presentation this was distributed at to give a first hand account of what happened. I've seen a few of these members describing what happened on other social media platforms but seem to be afraid of posing here lest they be crucified, which is exactly the problem at hand.

The issue isn't specifically volunteering. These kids just want to get involved and have their voice heard on the directon Minnesota is going. Volunteering is simply the avenue they have of being involved. This document, along with the general culture, has implied to them that if they voice views that don't agree with the leadership, their only method of getting involved (volunteering) will be relegated to more menial roles.

[pmallikarjun]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'll just post Sean's followup for him: What about this presentation indicated this was a MN FIRST document? Was the presenter a representative of MN FIRST? The document itself is seems entirely generic outside of the introductory paragraph.

The speaker is a long-time member of the MN RPC and an MN KV who was invited to speak about his engineering experience at the tech company he works for. GOFIRST has meetings for this purpose on a biweekly basis to provide networking opportunities to any student at UMN (so these meetings are attended by FIRST alumni at the U and students who have no idea what FIRST is other than that 2 regionals and an off-season state championship for FIRST are held on campus yearly).

I know a couple members of Bison Robotics also received a copy of the document, but I'm not sure if it was presented to them at a general meeting meant to introduce students to a specific company or if it was emailed to them for review/some other reason.

With regards to Knufire's comment, I'll just say that I had been considering making a CD account for a couple weeks now (starting from the 8 plays thread) and held off because I'm worried that voicing my PERSONAL opinions here will cause me to no longer be allowed to volunteer in MN though I have volunteered as a ref for the past 3 years (1 year in MN & at Champs, 1 year in MN & CO, and this year (for now) in MN). Additionally, all of my comments are my own PERSONAL opinion and do not reflect the opinions of any of the organiziations I am involved with now or have been involved with in the past.

[pwnageNick]

Originally Posted by Knufire

I invite any members of GOFIRST who were actually attending the presentation this was distributed at to give a first hand account of what happened. I've seen a few of these members describing what happened on other social media platforms but seem to be afraid of posing here lest they be crucified, which is exactly the problem at hand.

I can't blame them after reading this thread. If I were them (a college alum eager to volunteer... wait a minute) I wouldn't want to get lampooned by some of the people in this thread either.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

GuamFIRST: We will help you get to where you want to be.
Minnesota: You're not mature enough yet, but if you work toward it, maybe you might be some day.
College kids LOVE to hear that one!

You have to be blind as a bat to miss this one.

Color me blind, then. I don't see the Minnesota document accusing anyone of not being mature. They both set the expectation of maturity. The Guam one just surrounds it with many more words, and softens it by saying "often over several years" rather than "will take at least several years".

[pwnageNick]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Color me blind, then. I don't see the Minnesota document accusing anyone of not being mature. They both set the expectation of maturity. The Guam one just surrounds it with many more words, and softens it by saying "often over several years" rather than "will take at least several years".

It says in the document that key volunteer spots require maturity, etc. Saying this while being presented to college alumni literally implies they are not that. At least that is definitely how it reads.

Agree to disagree I guess if you don't see that.

I would direct quote here but am stuck on my phone ATM.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Collin Fultz

This is a real concern for some teams. In the regional system, you can qualify for the World Championship after 1 event. With districts, it takes 3. This is a turn off for some mentors.

Not true, District teams can still go to traditional regional and qualify. No need to go to the DCMP.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

Not true, District teams can still go to traditional regional and qualify. No need to go to the DCMP.

District teams are required to register (and pay) for their district events. In most cases, their local regional no longer exists, so travelling to an additional regional will cost more money and more travel time. While it's hypothetically possible that a district team could "no show" at both of their district events and only compete at an external regional and then CMP, I find that situation highly unlikely. So, either way you cut it, you're still talking about three pre-CMP events as opposed to one.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The Guam one just surrounds it with many more words, and softens it by saying "often over several years" rather than "will take at least several years".

That's just it though, the Guam one uses rhetoric to make the program sound like a friendly place where they will be more than willing to help you. While I'm sure that the MN program should be willing to do the same thing, the way that the document is written comes across to a younger audience as command laden and aggressive. Granted, college students take most things as "aggressive", but that's a different topic