How do I help my area move to districts?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Evan,
Are you saying this person is reacting to my post(s)? It is never my intention to trigger that response from a student or former student. You know me, you know I would not do that. The post you quoted is simply a lift from a previous post showing the similarity of two documents that are being compared.

Pauline,
I said it was rare but not that it never occurred. There are many former students, college age and others who fill these roles with distinction. I, for one, am quite happy to see former students make the transition to better volunteer roles. I worked with several over the weekend in Australia who are on the right track for the roles they wish to fill. I agree that age and maturity are not the same.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Would it help move the discussion onto more productive grounds if people knew this doc was killed over a year ago, and only distributed once? Seriously, everything about the doc is litterally

Why was it killed?

[Thad House]

To be honest, the issues seen in this thread are issues being seen across the entire world. The old guard establishment is too ingrained in their ways, and have had a very difficult time acting likes its 2016 instead of the 90's or even early. I see this first hand at large old tech companies, where everyone that makes the decisions has been at the company for 20+ years, and are so out of touch in an ever advancing world. Companies like Intel and Microsoft do massive layoffs (mostly of the younger crowd who work in the testing departments), and then wonder why their products keep getting worse and worse and they can't sell them. Companies like Google and Facebook are able to work around this as they have the young engineers and executives making the decisions, which allows them to adapt. You can see this same trend in the current presidential elections as well. Young people are so sick and tired of the establishment not caring about the future of our people that even though the candidates outside of the establishment are crazy they are still getting tons of votes, as the young population has seen that the current situation is not working out.

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Evan,
Are you saying this person is reacting to my post(s)? It is never my intention to trigger that response from a student or former student. You know me, you know I would not do that. The post you quoted is simply a lift from a previous post showing the similarity of two documents that are being compared.

Al,

That was not directed at your post but the strictness of the policy. The person I quoted from twitter has been involved in MN FIRST FRC volunteering for many years. If they are that afraid of making any sort of post or comment, what does that say about our community?

[jman4747]

First I have a question. Did MN FIRST come out and officially say they want to pursue districts save for a lack of volunteers and/or other resources, or something to that effect? I'm really interested in that aside form any controversy.

Next a piece of advise to the GOFIRST members. As a 19y/o collage student the letter it self doesn't put me off, and if say GA FIRST put it out tomorrow it wouldn't matter much. I think your real grievance lies with what's happened around the letter and you should focus on that more as it will serve your case better. The letter and different peoples reaction to it dose point something out to me though.

They might not understand you but you probably don't understand them either. They probably didn't write that to scare you off or put you down. But you have to understand that they aren't you and won't read it like you. I didn't read it like you so why would you think they know how you feel reading it? It is most likely a way to explain why you didn't and often won't necessarily get the job you prefer and a way to let you know it usually takes a while to work up to a lead position. So even if it fails to acknowledge that there can be exceptions to this norm that doesn't mean there won't be in practice. But they probably didn't know you would have wanted the letter to acknowledge the possibility of moving up faster because they aren't you.

The point is if in practice they are in fact denying positions to qualified persons or using social media unfairly than focus on that. The letter could be written a nicely as you want or as offensively as you fear and it won't affect your situation. And finally try to understand them as much as you wish they understood you.

[Bryan Herbst]

I'm going to go ahead and answer the original question: How do I help my area move to districts?

First, a few disclaimers: I am from Minnesota. I am not on the RPC, though I was on it for a year and know all of the members. I am a key volunteer, and I graduated college relatively recently (that is, I'm not an old man shooing rascally kids off my lawn).

Here are some real issues that need to be solved to move a region to districts:

• Where are these events happening? I don't mean give me the names of the small handful of school who currently host offseason events. For Minnesota, we need at least two locations every week plus one for the district championships.
• Someone needs to contact those locations. You need to be willing to drive to those locations and speak with representatives from the venue regarding contracts, timing, and logistics. Keep in mind that Minnesota is a large state and the proposed district spans the entire state.
• At this point, probably go back to step one because a few of your original venues were taken off the list because they are unavailable when you need them.
• Find funding for these events. Someone will need to go and speak to potential donors. Believe me, this will take a lot of potential donors. These donors also need to respect you and the organization (FIRST) that you represent.
• Find volunteers. Let's assume for a second that Minnesota has enough volunteers total such that each volunteer works two events (because that horse has been overbeaten more times than I care to count). Now you need to coordinate getting the right volunteers for 13 events (up from 4). They need to be relatively local to the area and/or willing to travel for the event. Your VC for each event should probably know these volunteers by name and a good VC will also have the same qualities as a good manager- they know where you want to be in 5 years and are working with you to get there. A VC isn't a once-a-year or maybe-I'll-try-this-out position.
• Coordinate the A/V aspect of the events. Who is webcasting each event? Who is running the sound board and projector? Do you have the equipment to do that? If not, go back to the fundraising step and then go through the process of acquiring equipment
• Find a place that can store your field(s). For Minnesota, this is a number greater than or equal to 2.
• Find people to maintain your field. It needs to be cleaned at least yearly, and things like road crates frequently need repair.
• Go back to fundraising because you also need to purchase fields.
• Figure out how to transport the field(s) to the events. The location Minnesota's field currently lives at between events doesn't allow anyone in under 18 and is only open during the workday M-F. The 2016 field also requires either two regular moving trucks or one semi, either requiring two drivers or someone with a Class A license (x13)

Those are the tasks I came up with in a few minutes of thinking, and I know there are a million more. Don't forget that the people we are currently asking to do these things are also currently responsible for 208 Minnesota teams and 4 regional events that need to continue running during the transition.

As much as I hate to say it, I don't think most college students would be good fits for many of these tasks. It's not because I think college students are immature or lazy, it's because of the time commitment many of these tasks require. College students should be focused first and foremost on college, and it becomes difficult to do that if you are trying to coordinate fundraising for 13 district events with executives from dozens to hundreds of companies. There is a reason that many have suggested that a 501(c)(3) is necessary: managing districts can easily be a full time job for a group of people.

That being said, these tasks can and should be divided amongst people. Regardless of who you are and where you come from, if one of these tasks sounds like something you would be good and and are interested in doing, talk to your RPC about how you can help out in that area.

Saying to your RPC "I want us to switch to districts" isn't likely to get you anywhere. Saying "I want us to switch to districts, I think I would be good at doing X, and here are a few ideas I already have on X" is much more likely to lead somewhere.

[Maldridge422]

As someone who’s only knowledge of Minnesota is through seasons one and two of Fargo, I’m a little hesitant to comment on this thread. However, there’s a student on my team who will be attending school in Minnesota next year and is afraid of losing touch with FIRST. I’ve repeated told this student that Minnesota is a great place for FIRST because the massive growth of FRC teams opens up countless mentoring and volunteering opportunities. After reading this thread and seeing how hard it is even for MN alumni to get involved, I’m a lot less optimistic about an out-of-state student’s opportunities. I’ll echo the sentiments in this thread that open communication and transparency would help a lot in making the transition to districts. While my own district still has a long way to go, open meetings held both in person and over the internet have been critical in our move to districts.

[rzoeller]

Originally Posted by Maldridge422

As someone who’s only knowledge of Minnesota is through seasons one and two of Fargo, I’m a little hesitant to comment on this thread. However, there’s a student on my team who will be attending school in Minnesota next year and is afraid of losing touch with FIRST. I’ve repeated told this student that Minnesota is a great place for FIRST because the massive growth of FRC teams opens up countless mentoring and volunteering opportunities. After reading this thread and seeing how hard it is even for MN alumni to get involved, I’m a lot less optimistic about an out-of-state student’s opportunities. I’ll echo the sentiments in this thread that open communication and transparency would help a lot in making the transition to districts. While my own district still has a long way to go, open meetings held both in person and over the internet have been critical in our move to districts.

I'll PM you about some of the resources GOFIRST provides college students who are interested in volunteering. I know many of our students volunteer with teams directly instead of at regionals, and that there are many teams around the metro area. Additionally, GOFIRST holds a variety of Chairman's and Kickoff related events with the goal of helping MN FIRST teams. I'm not sure if this student is attending the U of M, but even if not, feel free to have them get in touch with us.

The above invitation to get in contact applies to everyone - if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by Tanis

Here are some real issues that need to be solved to move a region to districts:

...

Saying to your RPC "I want us to switch to districts" isn't likely to get you anywhere. Saying "I want us to switch to districts, I think I would be good at doing X, and here are a few ideas I already have on X" is much more likely to lead somewhere.

This is extremely insightful, and gives a great picutre of all that is needed behind the scenes for this to happen. I think if information like this was publically communicated from the RPC to the interested parties, I think a lot of the current animosity would be resolved.

I know GOFIRST runs the Summer Robotics Summit event; a community roundtable about the tranisition to districts and all the issues therein would, in my opinon, also help foster communication between the various groups in the state. I know members of the RPC have hosted roundtables at GOFIRST seminars before. I'd even be willing to personally go up and particpate.

[pmallikarjun]

Originally Posted by Maldridge422

As someone who’s only knowledge of Minnesota is through seasons one and two of Fargo, I’m a little hesitant to comment on this thread. However, there’s a student on my team who will be attending school in Minnesota next year and is afraid of losing touch with FIRST. I’ve repeated told this student that Minnesota is a great place for FIRST because the massive growth of FRC teams opens up countless mentoring and volunteering opportunities. After reading this thread and seeing how hard it is even for MN alumni to get involved, I’m a lot less optimistic about an out-of-state student’s opportunities. I’ll echo the sentiments in this thread that open communication and transparency would help a lot in making the transition to districts. While my own district still has a long way to go, open meetings held both in person and over the internet have been critical in our move to districts.

If your student is coming to UMN, please tell them to reach out to GOFIRST! We frequently get requests for mentors from metro area teams and are always looking for more FIRST alumni at the U to help these teams out. We also host a variety of off-season events (SRS, MN Splash, and various other workshops) that we always need more help with. I'm an out of state student at the U and I have been extensively involved with the FIRST community, though I have been more involved with FLL & FTC because that has been easier.

Originally Posted by jman4747

The point is if in practice they are in fact denying positions to qualified persons or using social media unfairly than focus on that.

Up until this year, GOFIRST has been informed of positions at the Minneapolis regionals that were not yet filled and asked for help. This year, the group never received that information, but an email was sent out to teams requesting volunteers for positions such as flag assistants, safety glasses attendants, and spare parts desk attendants (I received this information because I'm on an email list as a mentor for a local team). When GOFIRST has received these requests in the past, emails have been sent to our general membership and people with the availability have stepped up to volunteer. In January I asked if I should send an email to the membership during a planning committee meeting and was told to hold off because hep from the group probably wouldn't be needed. When it was realized that more volunteers were needed, I'm not sure why the students at UMN weren't asked for help.

[Brandon Holley]

Wow, what a thread.

Collin's points about mediation are spot on - this is a serious issue that shouldn't be swept under the rug. It's not about a single document, or event, or volunteer, its a serious cancer inside the FIRST culture of a region. If you haven't been a 20 something up and comer in FIRST, you have to understand that seeing the other perspective is going to be very difficult for you. If you haven't had the responsibility of running an event to ensure 60 teams have an amazing time, you have to understand that seeing the other perspective is going to be very difficult for you.

As a 28 year old, now running a team for almost a decade, event chairing official FRC events, I really empathize with the frustrations I'm hearing from the low-mid aged college students in FRC. I've been disrespected, ignored and singled-out. I've also overreacted, lost my cool and missed the point. I get it. I've been there. My team is filled with college-aged mentors with a sprinkle of upper 20 somethings, I understand the frustrations on both sides of this discussion right now.

As an early 20s FRC mentor and volunteer, FIRST regional committee and volunteerism felt a lot like an Old Boys Club. You needed to know someone, or you weren't going to be involved how you wanted to. It sucked, plain and simple.

Were my expectations probably overly ambitious? Yeah, most certainly. But this is FIRST - you have a massive base of extremely talented young people thats growing every year who are being programmed to change cultures and break through barriers. Can we seriously expect them to just take a back seat until someone deems them 'ready'? (Subsequently I think thats why reading that in a document, even if it was only distributed once is what set off this storm.)

I liken it to a performance review at any employer. If you're a young employee, your growth and career path is a topic that is extremely important. Managers need to ensure their employees have a clear understanding of what it will take to reach the next level. Where employees get disgruntled is when they don't have that visibility and there is infrequent communication about where they stand. This is is what I am hearing when I read the posts from the many college-aged volunteers/mentors in this thread. They basically don't see the path - whether it exists or not isn't the problem to focus on, its that these eager-to-help people don't see it.


Honestly, the best thing to happen to New England on a volunteerism front was Districts. The issue was forced and the floodgates were opened. The barriers were broken. We no longer could rely on Dave Goric to Head Ref every event, or Kate Pilotte/Jacob Komar to FTA every event. These are awesome key volunteers, but we needed to diversify and holes were filled.

The hard part is you have to make a leap at some point. You can inch the cliff closer and closer by training keys for years ahead of time, but at some point in time - the region will need to jump. You may not see exactly where the key volunteers will be coming from, but the point is if there is never a hole to fill, or even visibility through consistent communication, the potential key volunteers will never materialize.

I'm super proud of New England, and its why I'm bragging about it now. We have an awesome mix of veterans who KNOW THEIR SH*T, and a spectacular group of eager 20-somethings - each group is getting a chance to shine- and its awesome to watch.

-Brando

[Dibit1010]

Originally Posted by Collin Fultz

This is a real concern for some teams. In the regional system, you can qualify for the World Championship after 1 event. With districts, it takes 3. This is a turn off for some mentors.



We try to balance that by having some events on Saturday-Sunday, helping limit the time off from work required by mentors.



It's a balance. There are positives and negatives to districts. I think that the positives greatly outweigh the negatives. I don't think that means that those negatives should be ignored.

Here in NC our district events are three days

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Thad House

To be honest, the issues seen in this thread are issues being seen across the entire world. The old guard establishment is too ingrained in their ways, and have had a very difficult time acting likes its 2016 instead of the 90's or even early. I see this first hand at large old tech companies, where everyone that makes the decisions has been at the company for 20+ years, and are so out of touch in an ever advancing world. Companies like Intel and Microsoft do massive layoffs (mostly of the younger crowd who work in the testing departments), and then wonder why their products keep getting worse and worse and they can't sell them. Companies like Google and Facebook are able to work around this as they have the young engineers and executives making the decisions, which allows them to adapt. You can see this same trend in the current presidential elections as well. Young people are so sick and tired of the establishment not caring about the future of our people that even though the candidates outside of the establishment are crazy they are still getting tons of votes, as the young population has seen that the current situation is not working out.

Have you ever studied history?

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Dibit1010

Here in NC our district events are three days

Under that logic, regionals are 4 days.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

The hard part is you have to make a leap at some point. You can inch the cliff closer and closer by training keys for years ahead of time, but at some point in time - the region will need to jump. You may not see exactly where the key volunteers will be coming from, but the point is if there is never a hole to fill, or even visibility through consistent communication, the potential key volunteers will never materialize.

This.
Change is always scary, even if it's something that other people have done successfully, because no people or groups of people are the same, so no solution is 100% universal. Sometimes though you just gotta grit your teeth and jump in. Make the decision. Commit.

I don't know how far along Minnesota is, but considering they've been talking about this for years, I assume they're not at square one. I could see the biggest reasonable roadblock would be money. How do we fund all the startup costs. Not sure how to help you there.