NY Districts - POA

[Bluman56]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

One way to help grow your volunteer base is to run offseason events. It also helps to prove to the organizers that there are other groups in the area capable of running an event.

This is extremely important. Unfortunately NYC has no offseason events (closest ones are in NJ) that can be used as "training centers" for young volunteers eager to try positions that might otherwise be filled at regionals. There used to be one in 2010 at Francis Lewis High School but I have yet to find out why that was never repeated. It's a shame but this ongoing discussion makes me very excited for the future of NY Districts.

I would love to help if needed.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by Bluman56

This is extremely important. Unfortunately NYC has no offseason events (closest ones are in NJ) that can be used as "training centers" for young volunteers eager to try positions that might otherwise be filled at regionals. There used to be one in 2010 at Francis Lewis High School but I have yet to find out why that was never repeated. It's a shame but this ongoing discussion makes me very excited for the future of NY Districts.

I would love to help if needed.

Well there is one a little closer now.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=146206

[Bluman56]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Well there is one a little closer now.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=146206

Looks like we found an offseason to go to! Thank you 5123!

[Josh Goodman]

So, I will say that this has been on the Regional Directors radar for a few years now (as you heard in the email). I want to echo the important point of everyone being on the same idea that districts _will_ happen sooner or later.

The reason why they have not yet are the insane amount of logistics needed to transfer to a different system like this. Things like how to split up the district locations (Putting upstate NY and NYC/LI together makes no sense) as well as figuring out who is hosting the competitions, how many are needed, if we have a volunteer base and the teams to go.

To the point of TVR and FLR being small: TVR had 36 teams this year out of a 36 team limit, FLR has 49 teams this weekend out of a 50 team limit. I think you would see a slight increase in size if venue was of no objective.

I'm not saying "don't have this conversation", I'm saying: these conversations are and have been happening, so if you're interested and pushing the region to districts sooner rather than later, do what 1493kd did and contact the right people to see how you can be a part of it.

[Conor Ryan]

The best solution right now is to introduce more off season events. Long Island had Deer Park, one of the oldest off season events until it went away a few years ago. The district model is cumbersome to implement, off seasons are a natural transition and the logical step for the area.

If anybody in the Southern NY/LI/NYC region needs assistance in developing an off season, I would be willing to help get you off the ground and rolling. Feel free to private message me.

I might add that I have heard from the NYC committee and they are exploring the feasibility of a Westchester County regional. I don't know about the current situation, but volunteers are a known concern.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

I might add that I have heard from the NYC committee and they are exploring the feasibility of a Westchester County regional. I don't know about the current situation, but volunteers are a known concern.

This is really interesting news to me - I'd venture to guess they're considering the Westchester County Center as their venue.

If the powers-that-be would like help making something like this happen, I'd be happy to join their efforts and help plan a regional in my backyard.

[Dominick Ferone]

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

The best solution right now is to introduce more off season events. Long Island had Deer Park, one of the oldest off season events until it went away a few years ago. The district model is cumbersome to implement, off seasons are a natural transition and the logical step for the area.

If anybody in the Southern NY/LI/NYC region needs assistance in developing an off season, I would be willing to help get you off the ground and rolling. Feel free to private message me.

I might add that I have heard from the NYC committee and they are exploring the feasibility of a Westchester County regional. I don't know about the current situation, but volunteers are a known concern.

One thing was when the deer park one went away Half Hallow Hills immediately stepped in and picked up where they left off and continued the tradition.

[Brian C]

Here is a link to the Half Hollow Hills FIRST Team 3624. They host the HHH Invitational every November.

http://team3624.herokuapp.com/

It would be great if some of the NYC teams could attend.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by Bluman56

This is extremely important. Unfortunately NYC has no offseason events (closest ones are in NJ) that can be used as "training centers" for young volunteers eager to try positions that might otherwise be filled at regionals. There used to be one in 2010 at Francis Lewis High School but I have yet to find out why that was never repeated. It's a shame but this ongoing discussion makes me very excited for the future of NY Districts.

I would love to help if needed.

As far as 'training centers', I know this doesn't help with the need for local NYC events - but if anyone wants to come out this summer to MidKnight Mayhem and train in a new role they're interested in, please reach out to me. (June 25, 2016).

We are pretty easily reached from the city - direct train from Penn, our train station is ~2 miles from the school. We frequently have NYC/LI teams come down to the event, so we'd love to invite volunteers as well.

Originally Posted by Josh Goodman

To the point of TVR and FLR being small: TVR had 36 teams this year out of a 36 team limit, FLR has 49 teams this weekend out of a 50 team limit. I think you would see a slight increase in size if venue was of no objective.

TVR also had a waitlist - I know we were on it, and I'm guessing there were other teams who didn't make it in as well. If venue size wasn't a factor, my bet is TVR would have a similar team count to FLR.

My question that came up, as I was typing this ... if the NY events are in Districts, where does that leave a lot of the international teams who have traditionally come to East Coast events?

[Jessi Kaestle]

Originally Posted by Libby K

My question that came up, as I was typing this ... if the NY events are in Districts, where does that leave a lot of the international teams who have traditionally come to East Coast events?

This is definitely something that the RD's are aware of and solving this issue will not be as simple as anyone quite likes.

There have been some talk of creating a European district but that creates complications of travel and visa's. For some countries, due to the political situations the countries are in, it is easier to get a visa to visit the US than it is to get a visa to visit some other European countries.

Another option that has been talked about on CD is that International teams could "Opt in" to a district but that creates a whole other issue of what happens if they make it to DCMP.

[EmileH]

Is it a possibility to continue to host one regional in the NY area alongside a district or possibly in NE/MAR alongside districts (since they are a bit more experienced) to allow for teams that want to travel into the US or from other US cities to compete near NY? Or is there a rule that disallows regional events in district-sanctioned regions?

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by EmileH

Is it a possibility to continue to host one regional in the NY area alongside a district or possibly in NE/MAR alongside districts (since they are a bit more experienced) to allow for teams that want to travel into the US or from other US cities to compete near NY? Or is there a rule that disallows regional events in district-sanctioned regions?

I don't think there's anything inherently against that. However the rules forcing teams that live in district boundaries requiring them to partake in the district system still would apply.

It's an interesting concept. While NYC has been THE event for international teams, I know it's not a cheap event to put on. Having a regional in NE or MAR for those teams would certainly be a cheaper alternative.

[Jessi Kaestle]

Originally Posted by EmileH

Is it a possibility to continue to host one regional in the NY area alongside a district or possibly in NE/MAR alongside districts (since they are a bit more experienced) to allow for teams that want to travel into the US or from other US cities to compete near NY? Or is there a rule that disallows regional events in district-sanctioned regions?

As far as I am aware there is no hard-set rule against it but I don't think it is feasible. By having both a district model and a regional in the same area that means that you are relying on the same group of sponsors for two very expensive enterprises. If you then take into account that Teams in Districts have last dibs on Regionals then you have an event that has little to no "local" Teams.

If we start asking for sponsorship for a event that caters mostly to international and "visiting" teams, then I think we will lose out on a lot of sponsors for the Regional to the District. One of the selling points that is used to gain sponsors is that these students will be looking for work in 4-8 years and they would be good assets to invest in. If those "assets" are no longer local then is the desire to invest in them still alluring?

[KrazyCarl92]

Originally Posted by Libby K

My question that came up, as I was typing this ... if the NY events are in Districts, where does that leave a lot of the international teams who have traditionally come to East Coast events?

Here's an excerpt from a white paper I published here about this topic. I really don't think the issue is as difficult to solve as many seem to think. We are problem solvers; let's work together to find solutions.

Marginal Impact on Stakeholders: International Teams

A total of 11 teams from outside North America were hosted by New York State Regionals in 2015: 9
at the New York City Regional and 2 at the SBPLI Long Island Regional. Teams from Canada
additionally competed in New York Regionals in 2015, but these teams have other competitions closer
to home where they can compete. The main focus in accommodating international teams in a District
Competition Model in New York State would be those teams without opportunities for local competitions who turn to New York competitions for their FRC experience.

Since 2009, teams from outside the District Competition Model have been unable to compete in events
hosted within the District Competition Model. It has been publicly noted that this was not the intent of
FIRST in Michigan, but rather a restriction imposed by FIRST for the implementation of the District
Competition Model. In 2015, FIRST began allowing teams from one district to compete in another
district for Inter-District play, although not for points. This allows a team from New England to compete
in a district event in the Mid-Atlantic or a team from Indiana to compete in a Michigan district in addition
to their 2 district events in their home district. However, as more and more regions transition to a District Competition Model within FRC, the current policy by FIRST will limit the options for international
teams aiming to compete in FRC.

This restriction is an artificial one imposed by FIRST. We can do better. The downstate New York
FRC events are a very attractive and generally reasonable destination for international teams who
compete in FRC, so we need not impose artificial barriers to participation. There are a few simple
solutions that come to mind for allowing international teams to compete in a prospective New York
State District Competition Model, while only requiring that these teams attend 1 competition in New
York before qualifying for the “World” Championship. One is reserving a certain portion of slots at the
District Championship for teams outside North America that would like to compete in New York. For
advancement to the “World” Championship, these teams could either start from 0 points and
accumulate points at a 5X multiplier or start from the minimum number of points required to qualify for
the District Championship and accumulate points at a 3X multiplier for the District Championship.
These teams would then be included in the rankings for teams in New York and qualify for the “World”
Championship by points in the same way that all other teams in the state qualify by points or awards.

An alternative would be to allow international teams to sign up for the district events in New York State,
and allow for their direct advancement to the “World” Championship by merit if the team is the Captain
or 1st selection of the winning alliance or wins the District Chairman’s Award. The Captain and 1st
selection of a winning alliance would be likely candidates to qualify by points anyway, and a recipient
of FIRST’s major Culture changing award is deserving of an opportunity to continue pursuing that
award at the highest level. Any teams that would qualify for the “World” Championship by these means
could still count against the District’s slot allocation, but also figure into the proportional calculation for
representation at the “World” Championship. These suggestions would each allow for international
teams to come compete once in New York with an opportunity to qualify for the ‘World” Championship
all the while without travelling to the states more than once beforehand.

[jijiglobe]

Just going to echo some problems that we might encounter when trying to organize a shift of New York to the district model.
1) Hosting district events in NYC would be hard.

On the other thread about NY districts, there was a lot of talk about how NYC has really large schools, citing Townsend Harris, Stuyvesant, and Brooklyn Tech as examples. As a student at Stuyvesant, I can testify that the population numbers are deceiving. Even though our school has over 3500 students, the building is 10 stories tall. Unlike large schools outside the city, our school is not really a suitable venue for a robotics competition. I have also talked to members of team 2601 from Townsend Harris who have said about the same. Brooklyn Tech is probably the largest school building in the city and might be able to host a district event but that would probably not be enough.

2) New York is the go-to regional for international teams

Due to a myriad of reasons, NYC regional has become a regional with a high international attendance. It's part of what makes the regional so special. While many people say that international teams could just get automatically invited to DCMP, this places them at a severe disadvantage to teams that have gotten practice at their district events. It would be an unpleasant experience for teams that are often already at a resource disadvantage.

3) DCMP would probably be in NYC.

This is a more controversial point, but the NYC regional is a large publicity, helping NYCFIRST pick up sponsors, as well as hold robot demonstrations for sponsors. NYC regional has lots of competition tours as well as special robot demos for the sponsors. Having a big show event in the city is pretty important. This issue is easier to work around, because it is possible to hold the district champs in NYC, however, staying in NYC can be really expensive, and a lot of the teams that are pushing to shift to districts, want DCMP to be held upstate. Obviously this isn't make or break, but it does take away from one of the primary incentives for the district model: saving money.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket but a lot of people on this thread seem to have their head in the clouds. These problems need to be addressed before NYC can shift to districts.