Wisconsin Regional 2016

[Sunshine]

Congrats to the winners and semi finalists. Great matches with great teams in the hunt. So many friends involved it was hard to cheer for just one alliance. The defenses certainly came out to play. It was unfortunate that advancement was delayed by a 10 minute referee meeting of the minds. I'm still personally bewildered on the ruling. But I do not want to take anything away from the winners. Congrats to IE and Chairman recipients.

In my opinion this regional had the best overall talent for any regional so far. And definitely one if not the best hard fought wisconsin regions we ever had.

A special shoutout to the Rookies of the Year. We were delighted to have a small part in your season preperation.

For me, I need to go back to team updates and the rule book to truly understand this game better. Thought I had a good handle on it until eliminations started. The pinning rules and the 20 second rule are now confusing to me. I also need insight to G22, G24.

Great job planning committee.

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

For me, I need to go back to team updates and the rule book to truly understand this game better. Thought I had a good handle on it until eliminations started. The pinning rules and the 20 second rule are now confusing to me. I also need insight to G22, G24.

The blue box with G24 is what really gets me.

Initiating deliberate or damaging contact with an opponent ROBOT
on or inside the vertical extension of its FRAME PERIMETER is not
allowed.

At what point is an action deliberate? If having a lighter robot and high bumpers means that every single contact leads to your robot riding up on their bumpers and crashing into their tower or arm, then would any contact within the perimeter be deliberate, even though you were only trying to play legal bumper-to-bumper defense? You can't really plead ignorance if the exact same thing happens over and over again.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by ZehP

If having a lighter robot and high bumpers means that every single contact leads to your robot riding up on their bumpers and crashing into their tower or arm, then would any contact within the perimeter be deliberate, even though you were only trying to play legal bumper-to-bumper defense?

They were not called for bumper to bumper contact leading to a G24. When a part of your robot outside of your frame perimeter contacts another robot within its frame perimeter, then you have a huge risk of a G24 if anything bad happens.

If you have a high mounted bumper, and it rides up on a robot with a low mounted robot, then I think it takes a much more deliberate act to warrant a G24 - like trying to continue into/over the robot vs. backing out. Also, at that point it is likely that part of their robot is in contact with your robot too. So at worst, you have offsetting penalties.

It is not the bumpers you have to worry about, it is anything of yours that is outside your frame perimeter. In prior years, the penalty was any contact, not just deliberate/damage causing. I personally believe in the "any contact" rule. Ripped wires can take a long time to replace. If you are going to play defense, then make sure everything of yours is inside the frame perimeter.

[Ernst]

Sorry, I should have used team numbers to begin with. My comment was mostly in reference to 5855's defense during eliminations. An example of what I'm talking about was in QF3-2, when 5855 repeatedly rode up on 2498's bumpers and made contact within their frame perimeter with their tower/shooter, which seems to me like it could be a repeated G24 violation.

Originally Posted by rich2202

If you have a high mounted bumper, and it rides up on a robot with a low mounted robot, then I think it takes a much more deliberate act to warrant a G24 - like trying to continue into/over the robot vs. backing out. Also, at that point it is likely that part of their robot is in contact with your robot too. So at worst, you have offsetting penalties.

The wording of the rule mentions deliberate or damaging content within the frame perimeter, nothing about continuing into/over the robot, but I agree that the current wording is not the best. My biggest problem is that you can never really know what is "deliberate," or what the drive team is trying to do. I disagree with what you said about offsetting penalties, though, but again because of what is deliberate. You cannot make deliberate contact within the frame perimeter of another robot if they drove up onto you, for example, while you were trying to score a high goal from the batter.

Originally Posted by rich2202

In prior years, the penalty was any contact, not just deliberate/damage causing. I personally believe in the "any contact" rule. Ripped wires can take a long time to replace. If you are going to play defense, then make sure everything of yours is inside the frame perimeter.

Agreed! I like good, legal defense, and sturdy robots that can get around it. I think the current wording of the rules leaves too much up to discretion.