Interesting/Cool Scaling Mechanism Designs

[martin417]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

What about:



FRC doesn't define a compressor but they do say that there shall be only one source of compressed air, and that it must be rated 1.10cfm or less. I don't remember anything about a positive displacement device in the rules...

Note: the below is my opinion. I am not on the GDC. For a definitive ruling, submit a question to the GDC.

A fan does not provide compressed air, it provides flow. That is why it is very difficult to even find a rating for delta P for most muffin fans as supplied in the KOP in the past. But I was able to find a rating for for a special "high static pressure" muffin fan for restrictive computer cases. This "high static pressure" fan was able to create a static delta P of .002 PSI when dead-headed.

Fans are listed in the rules under the electrical rules, not the pneumatic rules, for the excellent reason that they are not pneumatic devices.

The Q&A cited earlier was a question about using air from a solenoid valve attached to the pneumatic system, not a fan.

If you are not a member of the GDC, do not cite your opinion as fact (note that I have taken my own advice).

[GeeTwo]

Until and unless the GDC clarifies otherwise, I'll continue to assume that the manuals are written in American English.

[hardcopi]

We caught that and replaced it with a legal motor before we even attached it to the robot.

Originally Posted by gpetilli

Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this was specifically ruled illegal. See Q&A Q738 - unless you replaced the antenna motor with a legal motor?

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Que...omotive-motors

[aphelps231]

I drove down to the PNW Auburn district on Saturday and stopped by 4060's pit. The bag is inflated by a 550 motor spinning a 3D printed impeller inside of a 3D printed casing. They ensure it doesn't break the 15" rule by folding it back a certain way before each match. The bag is taped (I forget what kind of tape, it was fairly rigid looking stuff however) and the tape gives it some rigidity to stay upright while it's filled with air. There is a string inside of the bag that is attached to a spool on a winch that is used to lift the robot.

[martin417]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Until and unless the GDC clarifies otherwise, I'll continue to assume that the manuals are written in American English.

Can't really argue with that. Of course it really has no bearing on the productive discussion at hand. My admonishment stands: If you are not on the GDC, please do not state your opinion as fact.

Are my bumpers compressors? When my robot is in motion, there is a rise in static pressure across the surface. What about closed cell foam (like pool noodles are made of)? when force is applied to the foam, the pressure inside the cells of the foam is increased. Every time two robots collide or push against each other they are creating air pressure inside the closed cell foam far in excess of anything that could be produced by a muffin fan.

The pneumatic system rules are very clear. Fans are not mentioned, in English or any other language.

[who716]

I hope after this coming weekend our team will be able to present our design, our team caded and built it in about 7 days of work. We tested it on an old robot and got it to work almost perfect just struggling on getting the back of the robot up the extra two inches needed because of the sag. We are bringing it to our event with our withholding allowance and gonna give it a shot. we have some ideas t solve the problem

[ceekz]

3250 utilized a grappling hook and winch mechanism that proved to be highly effective. It did require precise alignment on the tower base to engage the hook. The thing I think that worked best about the design was the speed of the climb, less than 10 seconds from deployment:

https://youtu.be/47A-pXj1Ik4

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Until and unless the GDC clarifies otherwise, I'll continue to assume that the manuals are written in American English.

What are you even talking about? Like, honestly, this post makes absolutely no sense. No one said anything about what language to read the manual in, or the definitions of words.

The Manual allows fans, both electronics muffin fans and fans powered by FRC motors. A cloth bag placed over a fan is not containing compressed air - it's just containing air. The bag restricts flow of the air somewhat but it is not airtight - the bag does not stay even close to inflated the second the air is cut.

These rules have been the same for years, and in previous years the GDC has explicitly allowed mechanisms just like these. There's substantial historical precedent for these mechanisms (see blockers in 2013, similar hanging mechanisms in 2010, etc). You can't state your opinion as certain fact and then refuse to listen to anyone else's view unless the GDC says so. You're applying different levels of scrutiny to yourself versus others.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Until and unless the GDC clarifies otherwise, I'll continue to assume that the manuals are written in American English.

Do the Canadians get this in Canadian English?

What about those Aussies?

And we can't forget the Hawaiians!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously Gus, your logic just isn't there.
From my understanding...
If my dump valve happens to dump air into a Versatube somewhere on my robot because its mounted near that, I guess that's part of the pnuematics system now?

Introducing the new VEX Versatube with new PNEUMATIC Features!

What about the 2013 blocker I remember 116 having at IRI?

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by bkahl

What about the 2013 blocker I remember 116 having at IRI?

To be fair, I wouldn't make the assumption that a device added specifically for an off-season event that doesn't have an inspection process is legal.

[scottandme]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

To be fair, I wouldn't make the assumption that a device added specifically for an off-season event that doesn't have an inspection process is legal.

869 ran one in-season during 2013. It was deemed legal after being added for elims at TCNJ (after being red carded for failing to get it re-inspected). I don't recall if they continued to run it during their later 2013 events.

[Justin Ridley]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

To be fair, I wouldn't make the assumption that a device added specifically for an off-season event that doesn't have an inspection process is legal.

This blocker was built by 118 to add to a 3rd robot at champs. With 4039's help we installed it on their robot and passed supplemental inspection. It was planned for use in the division finals against full court shooters (until the eventual champions knocked us out.). It finally got to see some use at IRI.

This was an off the shelf fan, with model airplane propellers, run by a 775, inflating a custom sewn bag. I never would have called this a pneumatic device and it was never questioned as such.

During this year’s brainstorming, this blocker was brought up as possible way to deliver a hook to the bar. I honestly didn’t foresee it working, and love that 4060 pulled it off… it brought an immediate smile to my face when I saw the video. Great job.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by ceekz

3250 utilized a grappling hook and winch mechanism that proved to be highly effective. It did require precise alignment on the tower base to engage the hook. The thing I think that worked best about the design was the speed of the climb, less than 10 seconds from deployment:

https://youtu.be/47A-pXj1Ik4

This was definitely one of the fastest climbers I've seen in person, very impressive!

At Idaho, did you modify the climb to avoid going outside the 15" beyond the frame perimeter? I remember talking with your mentor Rob about a few ideas to ensure the hang is legal at all points of the climb. You can see what I mean around 0:24 in the video you linked, when the bot tips and grappling claw is extending beyond the 15" limit.

Congrats on the extremely strong showing at Idaho, your boulder scores were through the roof! Unfortunately, there's no match video from Idaho yet, I want to watch your performance!

-Mike

[lovelj]

This is just friggin brilliant. The concerns on pneumatics is compressed gas. This has very little energy and I would be surprised to see a judge pull the plug. One lesson most successful team have learned is push the rules to the limits. I'm sure the Cheesy Poof mentor is saying the same thing I am, "why didn't we do this?" This is extremely clever. I can see all kinds of cool cheese cake solutions here... Climbing and defense. I may have our kids cheese cake some air blown curtains for defense at Championships.

If I was a judge, I'd give these guys an engineer in excellence award for their creativity. Bravo!!!

[lovelj]

Originally Posted by martin417

Note: the below is my opinion. I am not on the GDC. For a definitive ruling, submit a question to the GDC.

A fan does not provide compressed air, it provides flow. That is why it is very difficult to even find a rating for delta P for most muffin fans as supplied in the KOP in the past. But I was able to find a rating for for a special "high static pressure" muffin fan for restrictive computer cases. This "high static pressure" fan was able to create a static delta P of .002 PSI when dead-headed.

Fans are listed in the rules under the electrical rules, not the pneumatic rules, for the excellent reason that they are not pneumatic devices.

The Q&A cited earlier was a question about using air from a solenoid valve attached to the pneumatic system, not a fan.

If you are not a member of the GDC, do not cite your opinion as fact (note that I have taken my own advice).

Here is what OSHA says... Compressed gas is anything over 40 psi. I seriously doubt if they got over 10 psi.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAZMAT_Class_2_Gases