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Unread 07-04-2016, 10:04
rich2202 rich2202 is offline
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COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

Thinking about an off season project for the programmers, and getting GRIP to run on a Raspberry Pi seems like an interesting project.

If we eventually put the PI on the robot for a competition, then it must be powered by the main battery. So, coordinating the boot of the Pi/Camera/RoboRio is something to consider.

Then it occurred to me that R31 would allow a battery for the Pi if I could find a COTS version of Pi that came with a Battery (rechargeable off a 5v or 12v would be ideal).

Anyone have a link to a COTS Pi with Battery kit?
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Unread 07-04-2016, 10:11
GreyingJay GreyingJay is online now
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

The problem is that they don't make a Pi with a built in battery. The COTS battery rule applies to something like a laptop or a smartphone, where the battery is reasonably expected to be an essential part of the package.

We powered our Pi off the 5V connection on the VRM on our competition robot, and for our practice bot, we just plugged it into the USB port on the RoboRio.

We brought the Pi from the practice bot with us to competitions as a spare part and declared it as part of our withholding, since we suspected that "Raspberry Pi 2 + Adafruit case + lid + microSD card with custom Raspbian image" counts as a "fabricated assembly" of COTS parts. The Pi weighs virtually nothing so we figured better safe than sorry...

Last edited by GreyingJay : 07-04-2016 at 10:42.
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Unread 07-04-2016, 10:39
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

We power our RPi2 with a USB cable plugged into the RoboRio. It uses ethernet for communication, the USB is power-only. Works great.
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Unread 07-04-2016, 11:00
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

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Originally Posted by GreyingJay View Post
The COTS battery rule applies to something like a laptop or a smartphone, where the battery is reasonably expected to be an essential part of the package.
[rant]
But no battery is integral to a device unless the battery cannot be removed and even then, if you can yank it out with some force and a screwdriver and replace it with a power converter then how can you possibly claim it is integral to the function of the system? Further, let's look at some examples.

You can claim a battery is integral to a laptop... but if you can pull the battery out and still run the laptop off of power converters then how is that battery integral to the system?

What if you replace the battery on a laptop? How is the battery integral to the function of the device if you can replace it?

What about cell phones and tablets? You can remove the battery on many of them and power it off of USB. Clearly the battery is not integral to the function of them.

Also, as we proved at one event, there are options for FRC teams to design custom circuits using super capacitors to keep computing systems powered. If that is allowed then why is a custom circuit with a battery not allowed?

FRC needs to examine the rules around additional batteries for onboard computers other than the RIO and apply the same approach of "allow but educate" to enable the use of them provided they aren't powering motors on the robot or in any way connected to the control pathways for the motors.

It drives me nuts. We are doing a lot with onboard processors and vision systems and it is REALLY HARD to keep time on these bloody systems (CMOS batteries are illegal at the moment!!!!), let alone keeping them happily powered because the battery rules for FRC are outdated when it comes to onboard computing devices. Combining that with network limitations and it is a true challenge.
[/rant]

I've applied the rant tags to the above so that the LRIs/RIs know that I know my request is probably unreasonable and will add stress to their (already very stressful) lives for having to check additional batteries but I really would like to see something changed. It is aggravating.

Also, we've since removed the super cap but it was really handy. Tom from 254 posted a buck/boost converter sold on Amazon that has truly been amazing. We're using it without any issues now and have recommended it to a lot of other teams. In my opinion, the battery rules for COTS computing devices are still broken and I feel like they need to be addressed.
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Unread 07-04-2016, 11:18
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

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Originally Posted by marshall View Post
You can claim a battery is integral to a laptop... but if you can pull the battery out and still run the laptop off of power converters then how is that battery integral to the system?
It is sold with the battery. That makes it "integral", even if you make a good argument for it not being "essential".
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Unread 07-04-2016, 11:32
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

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Originally Posted by Alan Anderson View Post
It is sold with the battery. That makes it "integral", even if you make a good argument for it not being "essential".
Ok... so all I need to do is find a vendor who sells a raspberry Pi with a battery as a single SKU? How about the beaglebone which has a battery port on it? Again, do I just need to buy one with a battery from a vendor and then magically it becomes legal?

These rules are silly.
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Unread 07-04-2016, 11:45
rich2202 rich2202 is offline
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marshall View Post
Ok... so all I need to do is find a vendor who sells a raspberry Pi with a battery as a single SKU?
That's the point of my post.

Quote:
How about the beaglebone which has a battery port on it?
Only if it comes sold with the battery as one item (sku).

Quote:
Again, do I just need to buy one with a battery from a vendor and then magically it becomes legal?
Yes.
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Unread 07-04-2016, 11:49
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

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Originally Posted by rich2202 View Post
That's the point of my post.



Only if it comes sold with the battery as one item (sku).



Yes.
I hope we all realize how absurd the current rules are then.

Also, I'll be setting up an ebay/amazon store post season or contacting vendors to sell Jetsons with batteries.
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Unread 07-04-2016, 11:51
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

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Originally Posted by rich2202 View Post
That's the point of my post.



Only if it comes sold with the battery as one item (sku).



Yes.
My buisness is looking into selling a Pi + Camera + Battery package within the year. Once we are ready to release this information I'll have more info.

In the meantime this solution should be legal right now.

http://juice4halt.com
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Last edited by JohnFogarty : 07-04-2016 at 11:54.
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Unread 07-04-2016, 14:03
GreyingJay GreyingJay is online now
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Re: COTS Raspberry Pi with Battery?

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Originally Posted by marshall View Post
Ok... so all I need to do is find a vendor who sells a raspberry Pi with a battery as a single SKU?
I just thought of a great fundraising idea for my team (assuming there's vision in next year's FRC game).
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