Where do you place Stronghold among other FRC games?

[Michael Hill]

This includes not only high levels of play, but at the regional qualifying rounds as well. This is mostly a ranking on what games were most fun not only to participate in, but to watch as well.

My top 5 would have to be in this order:

1. 2013 (Ultimate Ascent)
2. 2012 (Rebound Rumble)
3. 2016 (FIRST Stronghold)
4. 2006 (Aim High)
5. 2004 (FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar)

*Node: My active FRC years include 2004-2007 and 2012-Present

[orangemoore]

This is my favorite game ever. This being my final game as a senior it is my favorite game because of that and because it is such a great game.


My top 5

1.2016 (Best Game)
2.2014
3.2013 (Good year and First year)
4.2012
5.2015 (Best year for our team)

[Ozuru]

I know one thing -- it's definitely better than 2015.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

This includes not only high levels of play, but at the regional qualifying rounds as well. This is mostly a ranking on what games were most fun not only to participate in, but to watch as well.

My top 5 would have to be in this order:

1. 2013 (Ultimate Ascent)
2. 2012 (Rebound Rumble)
3. 2016 (FIRST Stronghold)
4. 2006 (Aim High)
5. 2004 (FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar)

*Node: My active FRC years include 2004-2007 and 2012-Present

I don't think you missed too much from 2008 through 2011; Overdrive was fun but not GOAT status, Lunacy was a fun design challenge but imperfect as a game, Breakaway was a snoozer and every robot other than 469's looked the same, and LogoMotion was an improvement over the two prior but still imbalanced.

Coming into this year, my personal #1 remained Aim High, because it had a fantastic autonomous period, no possession limits (which I think makes the design challenge more interesting) and while the game was skewed enough towards offense to let you just light up the goals it did it with relatively few rules to protect teams (mainly, the backbot rule and the usual no-damaging stuff). Sure, the endgame wasn't much to phone home about compared to the other three on your list--but I was willing to overlook that one.

My #2 was FIRST Frenzy, because it packed perhaps the most diverse group of competitive robots on the field we've ever seen. The ball dumps added excitement, the scoring was balanced perfectly, and really the main knocks were that few played the straight autonomous game and it did rely heavily on human players.

#3? Rebound Rumble. It's always a dogfight between it and Ultimate Ascent because they're so similar, but I think this one had the better endgame (more risk-vs-reward) and the game piece recycling kept kept it lively (where the high levels of play saw lots of bounce-outs the following year.)

#4: Ultimate Ascent, for all the reasons above.

#5: Many old-timers (and I mean older-than-me-timers here) swear by 2000's game, Coopertition FIRST. From the videos I've seen on YouTube, it also had that great balance across the board between balls and the central ramp/bar. It would be an interesting game to play with today's hardware; remember that there was no autonomous mode until 2003.

------------------------------------

So, where does Stronghold fall? I don't want to judge until I see Einstein and IRI, but it's got a great shot of being my new #2. The autonomous action is exciting (if not interactive, but I've resigned myself to FIRST not doing that anymore), the set of effective robots is diverse (maybe a touch less at the top than 2004, but 2004 also had a lot more BLTs as the last of the pre-Kitbot era), and there's just constant action to be able to achieve the breach and capture. It's easy to tell who's ahead and behind in the game (generally, who has more lights on?), and I really think they nailed the look of the game as a kicker. I'm hoping the highest levels of play prove me right on this one.

[Ben Martin]

I can rank them back to '05, partially colored by how whatever team I was on performed at the time--

1) Ultimate Ascent -- It will be hard to make a game as exciting and balanced as this one was
2) Aim High
3) Stronghold
4) Rebound Rumble
5) Aerial Assist -- If we had the IRI/Chezy Champs rule changes all year, I'd put this at #2
6) Rack n' Roll
7) Logomotion
8) Triple Play
9) Recycle Rush
10) Overdrive
11) Breakaway
12) Lunacy

[IndySam]

Way too early for this kind of thing. We need to at least see played at it's ultimate level to really judge.

[Richard Wallace]

Stronghold is the best game FIRST has given us since 2004.

Amanda outlined (very well!) the reasons that many of us old-timers loved First Frenzy: Raising the Bar, in a pre-season thread. I am very glad that the GDC included many of our all time favorite game elements (projectiles, hanging, strategic auton, mixed terrain) in this year's challenge. From a robot inspector's point of view, this is much more interesting than a bunch of forklifts.

[GeeTwo]

This is my fourth official year, and fifth year being involved in FRC. Stronghold is without a doubt the best game the GDC has given us in this time, followed by Ultimate Ascent and Rebound Rumble (both good games), Aerial Assist (fair), and Recycle Rush (*).

Originally Posted by thumper

* If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin'.

Having reviewed the rules of a number of previous games in building my team's kickoff drills, and seen a handful of videos, I still think that Stronghold is in the top tier of FRC games; I can't clearly judge it against some of the early favorites.

Edit: What do I consider as requirements for a "top game"?

• Engineering tradeoffs: That is, rules that create situations where "doing everything" is very difficult because of conflicting requirements.
• Mass Appeal: That is, how easy is it to explain the game, key items, and scoring to a family member.
• Meta Game: That is, how much does the game develop through the weeks of competition?

To date, Stronghold has been very strong on the first two, and near average on the meta game. DCMPs, CMP, and Einstin are still hanging out there, and (BOLD PREDICTION) I would not be a bit surprised if the developments of the next few weeks blow us all away on the meta game.

[EricH]

I put it pretty high up there. Definitely top 5, and I think I can make a pretty good case for top 3.

If IRI doesn't change a single rule, it'll be an even better case for top 3.

[JesseK]

In respect to design challenge, dynamics of game play and enjoy-ability to watch it's in my top 3 - competing with 2012-2014.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by EricH

If IRI doesn't change a single rule, it'll be an even better case for top 3.

I expect IRI will change the serpentine draft rule. Maybe nothing else.

[Boltman]

Well in my three years its the best... I did not hate RR...and AA was pretty much stronghold without defense breaching and climbing

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

I expect IRI will change the serpentine draft rule. Maybe nothing else.

That's not really a rule change... It's just how they roll.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

I expect IRI will change the serpentine draft rule. Maybe nothing else.

Tower strength?

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by EricH

That's not really a rule change... It's just how they roll.

You're right. It's a rule change, but IRI has always made it.

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Tower strength?

Probably. That's not a rule change either, because it is anticipated in the Manual (3.1.4).