Everyone's A Winner?

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

The way FIRST works, not all the best robots win their regional. In fact, most of the time, the captain and 1st pick of the finalist alliance have better robots than the 2nd pick of the winning alliance. The winners are not necessarily the best, and the best don't always win. This is how life works too, get used to it.

[Liam Fay]

Originally Posted by Type

I agree, not everyone is a winner. Our Coach has told us that before, he says that 2nd place is the first loser. After we got 2nd place at our first event, I asked if we were going ton dinner to celebrate since we made it to finals with a nearly rookie team, yet he said no since we didn't win. I agree with not everybody are winners. If everybody was a "winner", it would take the motivation out of competing so toughly

I disagree with this philosophy. Being second place at a regional of any kind is a phenomenal accomplishment, especially for a newer team. While it can be disappointing if that was your only hope of qualifying for CMP, it's still something you should be proud of. While it's important to always want to do better, calling 2nd place (!!) a loser is just unhealthy.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

FIRST used to give out bronze medals to every team who competed. These were replaced with pins provided in the KoP several years ago, presumably as a cost cutting measure.

I miss those metals. When you got them you knew what it was,"a reminder of the hard work it took to get you there." That's what is meant by being a "winner" at a FIRST event.

Don't get me started on that "2nd place is the first loser" crap.

[IronicDeadBird]

Well not everyone is going to be walking home with some sort of prize at the end of an event. However its hard for me to look back and say I lost because of the people I met, the skills I learned, and the memories I made, all those things made it worth it for me at least.

[Type]

Originally Posted by Liam Fay

I disagree with this philosophy. Being second place at a regional of any kind is a phenomenal accomplishment, especially for a newer team. While it can be disappointing if that was your only hope of qualifying for CMP, it's still something you should be proud of. While it's important to always want to do better, calling 2nd place (!!) a loser is just unhealthy.

We are located in Michigan so it was districts. I may be wrong but districts are easier than regional event. I agree though with him, we didn't win. I think if we were a worse team he wouldn't say that but we had potential to win but we just weren't there at the time it mattered.

[Boltman]

With the growing concern over the effects of competition in youth sports programs this summer, many Canadian soccer associations eliminated the concept of keeping score.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Liam Fay

I disagree with this philosophy. Being second place at a regional of any kind is a phenomenal accomplishment, especially for a newer team. While it can be disappointing if that was your only hope of qualifying for CMP, it's still something you should be proud of. While it's important to always want to do better, calling 2nd place (!!) a loser is just unhealthy.

If you're not first you're last.


But seriously, an 8 yr old put it into perspective a couple weeks ago "Wow, you were second? There were like 40 teams there"

I hate the everyone is a winner stuff. But I mean, we all do build some pretty cool[1] robots. So, while there are definitely winners, I'm not convinced there are losers.


[1] New Englanders - would this have been an appropriate use of the word "wicked"?

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Type

I agree, not everyone is a winner. Our Coach has told us that before, he says that 2nd place is the first loser. After we got 2nd place at our first event, I asked if we were going ton dinner to celebrate since we made it to finals with a nearly rookie team, yet he said no since we didn't win. I agree with not everybody are winners. If everybody was a "winner", it would take the motivation out of competing so toughly

This is why everyone should watch Karate Kid II. while the opening is powerful, the ending even moreso.

2nd place is first loser

This middle is really there just to support getting you from the beginning to the end.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by Type

Of course he wasn't strict about it. He worded it more like if you won, I would have to take you out to dinner. Although 2nd is good, it's not as good as 1st. If you learn to settle for shy of the best, that's what you will always end up getting. You need to strive for first. Falling short of your goal is bad, but you can't really celebrate until you meet your goal. I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

It does, and I get what he's trying to say. "Never settle for second best." But I think there needs to be a balance.

[who716]

This has been discussed and I don't think there is yes or no answer to it depends on a lot of different things. For me personally I was brought up in a very competitive family as my brothers and I used to race professionally and that cost a lot of money so if we didn't win, it was a waste of a lot of money and resource. In the race no one recognized or sponsored the driver who came in second. that stuck with me in first aswell. I wasn't happy with any placement unless we won. I personally laughed at the pins given out and the finalist awards given out.
But it all depends on how and what people what from first. That going to decide whether everyone is a winner or just the winner.

But you can't forget that when you go out in the real world you will lose some compitition whether it be that dream job etc. and if you have spent your whole life believing everyone is a winner when you don't get that job it may be a harsh realization.

[NoahB4536]

Originally Posted by Boltman

With the growing concern over the effects of competition in youth sports programs this summer, many Canadian soccer associations eliminated the concept of keeping score.

See that's what I don't want to have happen, and although I know first will never completely take away scoring there is still the possibility of a less competitive competition. I love competition and during the build season knowing that my actions will have an impact on the team at our regional leads me to be more focused and therefore learn more.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by IKE

This is why everyone should watch Karate Kid II. while the opening is powerful, the ending even moreso.

2nd place is first loser

This middle is really there just to support getting you from the beginning to the end.

+1
Best use of a Karate Kid movie ever.

[Jcarbon]

This thread is pretty relevant to me - this weekend my team was a finalist (one goal away from winning!) and Engineering Inspiration winner. Overall, I think we agreed that even though we were disappointed about not winning, we were very proud of making it to finals, especially considering the turnaround we made from being in dead last on Friday. Even though we had hoped to win a Chairman's Award, we were very proud of the EI, and appreciated the team that did win (go 3641!). So I guess my point is that whether you feel like you won depends on the team and your circumstances, and you can feel both proud of your accomplishments while also recognizing your shortcomings.

[ctt956]

Originally Posted by who716

This has been discussed and I don't think there is yes or no answer to it depends on a lot of different things. For me personally I was brought up in a very competitive family as my brothers and I used to race professionally and that cost a lot of money so if we didn't win, it was a waste of a lot of money and resource. In the race no one recognized or sponsored the driver who came in second. that stuck with me in first aswell. I wasn't happy with any placement unless we won. I personally laughed at the pins given out and the finalist awards given out.
But it all depends on how and what people what from first. That going to decide whether everyone is a winner or just the winner.

But you can't forget that when you go out in the real world you will lose some compitition whether it be that dream job etc. and if you have spent your whole life believing everyone is a winner when you don't get that job it may be a harsh realization.

This was my first year in robotics. I thought it was a "real" robotics competition. It isn't, and FIRST says that. You can watch this video from 1992 when FIRST was a real robotics competition. All the awards are great, but should be separate from the robotics competition. It should be an elimination tournament and based on individual merit. If your team works hard, has a great drive team, and builds a fantastic robot, your team should be rewarded for that work. The awards should not affect rank in the robotics portion at all. If it were a true competition, more people would come to watch it. And that is the best way to spread the STEM message. FIRST needs to encourage fan support.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

[1] New Englanders - would this have been an appropriate use of the word "wicked"?

"Wicked cool" would be appropriate. Just "Wicked" without "cool" would not be.

Originally Posted by ctt956

If your team works hard, has a great drive team, and builds a fantastic robot, your team should be rewarded for that work.

Yes, just like in the real world.