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  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-04-2016, 20:01
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Re: Capabilities Needed to be Picked at Champs

One observation: the quality of the second pick robots available at Champs are much higher than at a typical Regional or District event. We've found that we've been able to get bots that were alliance captains or first picks at those events. (i.e., 862, 1640, 1671). That means that we get much better driver quality and bot reliability than we get at Regionals. So look to what those teams do at your local competitions for what to expect from second picks at Champs.
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Unread 11-04-2016, 20:32
Kevin Leonard Kevin Leonard is offline
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Re: Capabilities Needed to be Picked at Champs

Most of you seem to be posting as if your third robots will be totally incapable of doing anything but defense and challenging. Maybe the events you've attended have had weak third robots, but at the events I attended, there were excellent robots available by the 24th pick, and some that went unpicked. Some examples are:

At TVR:
4203 could score 2-3 high goals in a good match
1450 could cross most defenses and score 2-3 low goals
At FLR:
3951 could score 2-3 low goals and climb
174 could score 2-3 low goals and climb
191 could score 2-3 high goals undefended in a good match

Heck, our 24th robot at FLR could score 4 high goals in teleop and one in auto in a good match. (That was an anomaly though, as 2383 flew under everyone's radar).
I expect that, similar to last year, third and fourth robots will be robots that may have won regionals and districts as high seeds.

My personal priorities for a third robot:
Can cross something in auto that doesn't interfere with my robot and my partner's robot (or shoot a spy bot auto shot)
Can score either a ball in auto or a climb (10 points either way)
Smart Driving and good team players
Can score 4 goals if necessary (low or high- basically a backup in case the other scoring robot is shut down, or we decide to run all-offense)
And being able to challenge is a given.
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  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-04-2016, 20:38
mitchellzone mitchellzone is offline
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Re: Capabilities Needed to be Picked at Champs

I'm seeing a bunch of comments about being able to score boulders in auto being an important trait for alliance picks. It's a cool thing, I grant you, but I just don't think it's that valuable--or common enough to be a prerequisite.

First of all, I've seen only a handful of robots in the entire NC region which even attempt to score a boulder in auto, and perhaps 1 or 2 which can do so reliably. Thinking that there will be more than a few in the top 8 seeds per division seems unrealistic, much less any left for the 2nd round.

Second, the large time investment required to build a reliable auto shooter for an extra 5 points just doesn't seem worth it. Instead, you can just drive over the defenses during auto, hold onto the boulder, and shoot it more accurately immediately after tele-op starts. Fewer points, but more reliable, and you've hardly lost any time to go retrieve another boulder. If you shoot during auto and miss (most do), you get nothing and have to spend a bunch of time tracking down a new rock.

So, for my money, take a fast, accurate tele-op shooter over an auto shooter any day.

/mike
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  #34   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-04-2016, 20:49
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Re: Capabilities Needed to be Picked at Champs

Be good at what it is you can do, and don't think you're better than that. also have a good drivetrain so you can play defense.
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  #35   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-04-2016, 20:59
Abhishek R Abhishek R is offline
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Re: Capabilities Needed to be Picked at Champs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard View Post
Most of you seem to be posting as if your third robots will be totally incapable of doing anything but defense and challenging. Maybe the events you've attended have had weak third robots, but at the events I attended, there were excellent robots available by the 24th pick, and some that went unpicked. Some examples are:

At TVR:
4203 could score 2-3 high goals in a good match
1450 could cross most defenses and score 2-3 low goals
At FLR:
3951 could score 2-3 low goals and climb
174 could score 2-3 low goals and climb
191 could score 2-3 high goals undefended in a good match

Heck, our 24th robot at FLR could score 4 high goals in teleop and one in auto in a good match. (That was an anomaly though, as 2383 flew under everyone's radar).
I expect that, similar to last year, third and fourth robots will be robots that may have won regionals and districts as high seeds.

My personal priorities for a third robot:
Can cross something in auto that doesn't interfere with my robot and my partner's robot (or shoot a spy bot auto shot)
Can score either a ball in auto or a climb (10 points either way)
Smart Driving and good team players
Can score 4 goals if necessary (low or high- basically a backup in case the other scoring robot is shut down, or we decide to run all-offense)
And being able to challenge is a given.
The thing is playing defense seems to be so destructive to the opponents who are trying to score that it is almost always worth playing that strategy, especially when the other teams are shooting from the batter. If they shoot from the outer works and cannot be blocked, then I agree it may be better to pile on the offense.

I definitely agree with your priority list though. Just good driving isn't enough, it's important to be contributing points whenever you aren't able to play defense, which would be autonomous and the last 20 seconds.
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  #36   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-04-2016, 22:16
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Re: Capabilities Needed to be Picked at Champs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard View Post
Most of you seem to be posting as if your third robots will be totally incapable of doing anything but defense and challenging. Maybe the events you've attended have had weak third robots, but at the events I attended, there were excellent robots available by the 24th pick, and some that went unpicked. Some examples are:

At TVR:
4203 could score 2-3 high goals in a good match
1450 could cross most defenses and score 2-3 low goals
At FLR:
3951 could score 2-3 low goals and climb
174 could score 2-3 low goals and climb
191 could score 2-3 high goals undefended in a good match

Heck, our 24th robot at FLR could score 4 high goals in teleop and one in auto in a good match. (That was an anomaly though, as 2383 flew under everyone's radar).
I expect that, similar to last year, third and fourth robots will be robots that may have won regionals and districts as high seeds.

My personal priorities for a third robot:
Can cross something in auto that doesn't interfere with my robot and my partner's robot (or shoot a spy bot auto shot)
Can score either a ball in auto or a climb (10 points either way)
Smart Driving and good team players
Can score 4 goals if necessary (low or high- basically a backup in case the other scoring robot is shut down, or we decide to run all-offense)
And being able to challenge is a given.
I was going to write up a list, but Kevin has covered all my essentials. I would probably go with a spy bot shot over an autonomous crossing robot. It's still autonomous points, weakens the tower, and isn't as risky with two robots running a 20 or 30 point autonomous routine.

There will be more than 32 robots that can cross in autonomous. That skill won't get you picked.

Ultimately, teams will pick what fits with their strategy and who they trust will perform well. Trust comes through consistent performance or previous team relationships.

David
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Unread 11-04-2016, 22:27
Theseusgoats Theseusgoats is offline
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Re: Capabilities Needed to be Picked at Champs

IMO, I'd argue that you might be able to sneak a potential very good high goal shooter (ie 5 or so high goals) as a second pickif you are a lower seeded alliance, such as 6,7,8. This creates a larger possibility for those lower seeded alliances to go much farther and beat the number 1,2,3 alliances by an overall stronger alliance even though the individual robots may not be world class.
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