Split Champs in '17 and '18

[Tyler_Kaplan]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

The real conflict is with teams that do VEX...

This is the most upsetting thing for me when it comes to splitting the champs. As a mentor of both VEX and FRC, it's going to sucks having to choose which competition to go to...

[thatismytruck]

This info may have been distributed but I cannot find it on the FIRST site:

How do you know which venue you are going to?

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by logank013

With 800 teams at two champs locations, I assume it will be 400 at each. In total, will they have 8 divisions with 100 each? or 16 with 50 each? or 12 with 67ish each? or another split up? Does anyone know for sure? thanks.

I've heard rumors of expanding FTC at World Champs as well but I'm willing to bet that FIRST is on top of the logistics needed to support the sheer quantity of people at the events. I don't think they'll ever get to 800 FRC teams at a single event.

Remember, it was 600 (ish) FRC teams at champs last year. Going from 400 to 600 teams for FRC in 2015 used about 750 more hotel rooms, or 3-5 additional hotels' worth of rooms (convservatively @ 15 people traveling per team, 4 people to a room). That also means about 3500 more people (including volunteers for the new divisions) had to travel to the city during very specific dates and times.

The timing conflict with VEX is a pretty unfortunate scenario. I doubt it was a direct intention - the IFI sponsorship is significant and reaches every team in FRC. I really do wonder about the thinking behind the dates though.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by logank013

With 800 teams at two champs locations, I assume it will be 400 at each. In total, will they have 8 divisions with 100 each? or 16 with 50 each? or 12 with 67ish each? or another split up? Does anyone know for sure? thanks.

My guess is we go back to 4 divisions with the "old" divisions being at one champs and the "new "divisions at the other. I believe the current 8 division system was just to hold us over. And test how divisions of the current size/dilution would play out.

Originally Posted by JesseK

The timing conflict with VEX is a pretty unfortunate scenario. I doubt it was a direct intention - the IFI sponsorship is significant and reaches every team in FRC. I really do wonder about the thinking behind the dates though.

Timeline:

Vex Schedules Worlds 3-4 years out.
FIRST then schedules Worlds for the same weekend those 3-4 years
Vex bends over backwards to move the weekend so that teams can do both (Keeping in mind VEX encourages FRC participation with its VEXPro line)
FIRST then splits champs and books it for the weekend VEX worlds is after VEX already bent over backwards.

It would just appear that FIRST is being reactionary and unwilling to make compromises like VEX is - malicious intent or not.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

The real conflict is with teams that do VEX...

"Who? What?" *eyes dart back and forth nervously*

[protoserge]

Originally Posted by JesseK

The timing conflict with VEX is a pretty unfortunate scenario. I doubt it was a direct intention - the IFI sponsorship is significant and reaches every team in FRC. I really do wonder about the thinking behind the dates though.

I believe the real reason was the scheduling requirement for two very large and popular venues. It was not aimed at intentionally disrupting VEX.

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

My guess is we go back to 4 divisions with the "old" divisions being at one champs and the "new "divisions at the other. I believe the current 8 division system was just to hold us over. And test how divisions of the current size/dilution would play out.

If I was FIRST I would mix up the new and old divisions. Putting all 4 of the "classic" divisions at one event seems like it will give it the feel of being the more prestigious of the two. The 4 "classics" just have so much more history behind them by virtue of being older. But splitting and mixing new and old may help to mitigate this problem.

(I'm trying to think of a Sportsball analogy but I'm drawing a blank right now)

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by P.J.

If I was FIRST I would mix up the new and old divisions. Putting all 4 of the "classic" divisions at one event seems like it will give it the feel of being the more prestigious of the two. The 4 "classics" just have so much more history behind them by virtue of being older. But splitting and mixing new and old may help to mitigate this problem.

(I'm trying to think of a Sportsball analogy but I'm drawing a blank right now)

Even better, this will allow Carson and Carver to be at different events to reduce confusion.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by protoserge

I believe the real reason was the scheduling requirement for two very large and popular venues. It was not aimed at intentionally disrupting VEX.

This. Y'all surely realize that in Houston we're talking about using a basketball arena and a baseball stadium at the end of basketball season and the beginning of baseball season. You can't push it a week later, or else you're doing opening ceremonies in the George R Brown because the Rockets might be in the playoffs. And you're not doing opening ceremonies in Minute Maid, because it's already a miracle they're letting you do Finals/Einstein there for a whole day during the season. There's like a 24 hour time limit on how long they'll let you cover the infield, especially during the season.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

This. Y'all surely realize that in Houston we're talking about using a basketball arena and a baseball stadium at the end of basketball season and the beginning of baseball season. You can't push it a week later, or else you're doing opening ceremonies in the George R Brown because the Rockets might be in the playoffs. And you're not doing opening ceremonies in Minute Maid, because it's already a miracle they're letting you do Finals/Einstein there for a whole day during the season. There's like a 24 hour time limit on how long they'll let you cover the infield, especially during the season.

It's my understanding that finals/einstein are in the convention center at both Houtson and Detroit.

[techtiger1]

The Champions can meet at IRI. I think the real problem here is finding enough volunteers for two championship events and the dropoff in robot quality with so many teams at Champs.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

It's my understanding that finals/einstein are in the convention center at both Houtson and Detroit.

Being son of the Houston RD gets me early access to info, I suppose. I'm unclear on division finals locations, but Einstein and Closing Ceremonies are to be in Minute Maid. I would expect finals as well so we aren't shuffling the entire Champs across the street to Minute Maid at lunch, but I'm also unsure where they're fitting the fields. Regardless, Minute Maid is definitely a requirement for pulling off Houston Champs, since it's going to be the only place you'll fit everyone around one field.

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Being son of the Houston RD gets me early access to info, I suppose. I'm unclear on division finals locations, but Einstein and Closing Ceremonies are to be in Minute Maid. I would expect finals as well so we aren't shuffling the entire Champs across the street to Minute Maid at lunch, but I'm also unsure where they're fitting the fields. Regardless, Minute Maid is definitely a requirement for pulling off Houston Champs, since it's going to be the only place you'll fit everyone around one field.

Actually moving 32 teams at lunch is going to be much easier then moving 256 teams at the beginning of the day. The only way around this would be to do alliance selection friday night, which I don't think they'd do. I wouldn't be surprised to see them run division elims on the division fields, then move the winners to Einstein during the 2 hour break.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Thad House

Actually moving 32 teams at lunch is going to be much easier then moving 256 teams at the beginning of the day. The only way around this would be to do alliance selection friday night, which I don't think they'd do. I wouldn't be surprised to see them run division elims on the division fields, then move the winners to Einstein during the 2 hour break.

This is what they did in 2011 when 2 of the division fields were in the same area as the pits, right?

Looks like we might want to motorize our pit boxes in anticipation of the move...

-Mike

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

This is what they did in 2011 when 2 of the division fields were in the same area as the pits, right?

Looks like we might want to motorize our pit boxes in anticipation of the move...

-Mike

It was only 8 teams back then anyway that advanced (6 mains plus 2 backups). Plus the walk from the pits to the dome is for sure to be much shorter then the walk to a completely different building.