Wild Card Spot Reform?

[Boe]

Just gonna throw out this crazy idea perhaps we could bring teams into champs based on something similar to the district ranking system instead of the waitlist....

[logank013]

Originally Posted by Boe

Just gonna throw out this crazy idea perhaps we could bring teams into champs based on something similar to the district ranking system instead of the waitlist....

Would this the ban district teams from qualifying in this new waitlist system or would you figure out a way to make a mesh district regionional ranking system for wildcard spots? Sounds like a cool (and complicated) idea.

[Boe]

Originally Posted by logank013

Would this the ban district teams from qualifying in this new waitlist system or would you figure out a way to make a mesh district regionional ranking system for wildcard spots? Sounds like a cool (and complicated) idea.

I personally would not bar district teams from getting in under this sort of system, I feel like the championship should have the best teams so if a team has more points then others throughout the world they should get in despite not qualifying through their own district. Obviously there would have to be some way to level the field between regional and district events and then the issue of teams that compete at multiple events. I personally think that you should use a teams best event, but others may very reasonably say use the average of all events or only a teams first event.

I personally have never been a fan of the waitlist system and have talked to teams who got in based on the waitlist and say they don't think they deserve to be competing at the championship.

[logank013]

I'm not sure if I made this clear or not so I'm going to clarify. I'm not trying to get rid of the current 6 qualifying spots. Those are fine. I'm not trying to eliminate qualifying based on Chairman's, EI, or Rookie AS. The current wild card system is based on robots. I'm trying to keep it that way with this "new" system. Going beyond robots is very important. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was trying to eliminate that

[Michael Hill]

I'd personally like if district teams could not qualify for championships through regionals and would automatically generate wildcard spots at regionals if they are on the winning alliance or won a qualifying award.

[Chris Fultz]

Remember a few years ago there were no "wildcards".

If the entire winning alliance had already qualified, then it was possible that no one from a regional would get the invite to the CHPs based on the robot competition. The wildcard system extended those invites to the finalist alliance to address this.

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

Remember a few years ago there were no "wildcards".

If the entire winning alliance had already qualified, then it was possible that no one from a regional would get the invite to the CHPs based on the robot competition. The wildcard system extended those invites to the finalist alliance to address this.

Sure, but incremental improvement upon the existing system can only be a good thing, right?

[Nathan Streeter]

The answer to this problem is switching to the district system, in my mind... the qualification system works exceptionally well.

When was the last time you heard about a particularly deserving team from Michigan, PNW, New England or MAR not qualifying for Championships?

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

Remember a few years ago there were no "wildcards".

If the entire winning alliance had already qualified, then it was possible that no one from a regional would get the invite to the CHPs based on the robot competition. The wildcard system extended those invites to the finalist alliance to address this.

Yep, and that's good. But it doesn't address the issue that at a 64 team event, in a normal best case fewer than 10% of the teams can be invited to Championships. (I'm going to ignore the edge case where the winning alliance used a backup coupon making the potential 7)

Last year after the North star regional where only 4 out of 60 teams were invited to Championships I suggested that the wildcards extend into the seeds after using the whole finalist alliance based on the regional size.

My equation was something like Ceiling(count of teams /10) would be the guaranteed number of Championship invites. So if only 4 new teams were invited to champs at a 40 team event, that would be the end of it. But if only 4 new teams were invited at a 61 team event, that would generate 3 wildcards which would go first to the finalist alliance, then through the uninvited top (regional) seeds in order.

That wouldn't punish large regional events simply for being large the way the current system works.

Additionally, since regional teams cannot enter district events, any district based team that wins a slot at a regional should automatically generate a wildcard at that regional for one of the teams under the regional system. The way the system is now, a district based team can come into a regional event and eliminate championship opportunities for a regional based team. Because regional based teams are not allowed to enter district events, the reverse cannot happen.

[nuclearnerd]

Here's an idea for thought: Should we even try to make sure more "good robots" make it to champs? If that were our primary concern, we could turn regionals into a show-dog style demonstration, and have judges and pick from there. Most of us could walk around a pit area and point out which robots are "good", so let's just skip the formalities (/sarcasm).

I would counter that the serpentine draft, strength of schedule, and the crazy things that happen during competitive matches, open up the opportunity for surprises. Teams that don't usually qualify could catch a lucky break and upset a powerhouse. That's a great narrative, and it's part of why sports are so compelling.

Don't get me wrong, I like the district point system, and I'm OK with the idea of regional wildcards extending beyond the finalist alliance. But I also don't think we should be too worried about who "deserves" to go to champs or not. The excitement is in the uncertainty!

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Boe

I personally have never been a fan of the waitlist system and have talked to teams who got in based on the waitlist and say they don't think they deserve to be competing at the championship.

As a student on a team who got in on waitlist last year, I have to disagree. Had we not gotten in on the waitlist, I doubt my team would even have gotten the chance to make it to champs. For me personally, it was touched me deeply to be in such a huge stadium with other kids interested in STEM like me, and for many students I think experience is very valuable. Without the waitlist (or the future double champs) many teams wouldn't get that chance.

[District2Region]

As a district-to-regional transplant, I've been compiling my thoughts on the matter into a proposal for using District Points to award wildcards. I have attached it, feel free to give it a read and tell me what you think.

[logank013]

Originally Posted by District2Region

As a district-to-regional transplant, I've been compiling my thoughts on the matter into a proposal for using District Points to award wildcards. I have attached it, feel free to give it a read and tell me what you think.

I like that a lot. It basically says exactly what I want and adds some more. I'm glad to said something about district teams qualifying at a regional. I feel like 6 spots should be given to regional teams no matter what. It seems to be a lose lose situation when a district team wins a regional. The district loses one of its "next-in" spots and regionals get to send 1 less regional team.