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Unread 13-04-2016, 12:18
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

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Originally Posted by AcesJames View Post
Nope. I'm gonna be honest here, based on what you've just posted, it seems to me that the thing that finally changed your perception was Karthik's negative reputation and subsequent private message conversation. In the offline real world, it works the same way. You have the right to open your mouth (or type on a keyboard) and say whatever you want, but in doing so you open yourself up to criticism. Creating a safe space where no one is allowed to tell each other when they're wrong stifles teaching and learning opportunities.

Clearly you've already learned something from this experience so I wont harp on it, but I think it would be better to "check yourself" before you make a post instead of doing so unfiltered and then deflecting the consequential criticisms.
When I say safe place I do not mean neglecting the rep system. What I am saying is we should make sure students do not have their opinions shut down withoit real reason and the unnecessary reputation doesn't get thrown around.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 12:21
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

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Originally Posted by Sperkowsky View Post
When I say safe place I do not mean neglecting the rep system. What I am saying is we should make sure students do not have their opinions shut down withoit real reason and the unnecessary reputation doesn't get thrown around.
What constitutes certain reputation as unnecessary?
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Unread 13-04-2016, 12:45
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

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Originally Posted by lethc View Post
What constitutes certain reputation as unnecessary?
Ill give you some examples (I wish I could go back and get all of mine but a lot of the comical ones are gone)

Here are some recent ones
The 2056 Streak has... 04-02-2016 11:19 PM - they still won
like what?

or

pic: Rookie Mistake 03-28-2016 11:18 PM rambling post and bragging
The "bragging" was me saying that I read the manual a lot.
Side note on this one the person who redded me also redded a person in F4 for no real reason and even PM'ed me recently because he could not red me again.

Here is what you should use it for
Negative reputation should be given if the person is posting something that detracts from the conversation. If the post is rude, inappropriate, breaks forum rules, is not gracious, etc; these are all good reasons to give negative reputation. If you have a personal grudge with someone, their team, etc, is it not appropriate to give them negative reputation for no reason. Giving negative reputation because you don't agree with what was said is not an appropriate use of the reputation system. People are entitled to their own opinions, and just because you don't agree doesn't mean the user was wrong or not contributing to the conversation.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 13:11
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

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Originally Posted by Sperkowsky View Post
Here is what you should use it for...
Herein lies the reason reputation flies around all willy-nilly going nimbly-bimbly from tree to tree*. It's merely a example from your post but it can easily be generalized to many who post on CD.

Who is "you"?
Why isn't this predicated as your opinion? Stating it as fact shows lack of humility and ignorance to the possibility you may be wrong.

*Super Troopers reference...
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Unread 13-04-2016, 13:13
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseK View Post
Why isn't this predicated as your opinion?
Because it was quote from a FAQ http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/fa...reputation_faq

Last edited by Sperkowsky : 13-04-2016 at 13:16.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 13:14
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperkowsky View Post
Ill give you some examples (I wish I could go back and get all of mine but a lot of the comical ones are gone)

Here are some recent ones
The 2056 Streak has... 04-02-2016 11:19 PM - they still won
like what?

or

pic: Rookie Mistake 03-28-2016 11:18 PM rambling post and bragging
The "bragging" was me saying that I read the manual a lot.
Side note on this one the person who redded me also redded a person in F4 for no real reason and even PM'ed me recently because he could not red me again.

Here is what you should use it for
Negative reputation should be given if the person is posting something that detracts from the conversation. If the post is rude, inappropriate, breaks forum rules, is not gracious, etc; these are all good reasons to give negative reputation. If you have a personal grudge with someone, their team, etc, is it not appropriate to give them negative reputation for no reason. Giving negative reputation because you don't agree with what was said is not an appropriate use of the reputation system. People are entitled to their own opinions, and just because you don't agree doesn't mean the user was wrong or not contributing to the conversation.
+1

The dot system works well when it's used correctly. The example you gave in the OP was a good use of the dot system. You made a post that breaks the community rules (i.e. insulting a team by calling their robot mentor-built), and you got red dotted. That led you change your ways, and now you have fully reformed.

In these examples, the dot system was not being used properly. Small mistakes (especially when they aren't mistakes) or differences in opinion don't warrant a red dot. Maybe just a grey dot or PM.

To give another example, in one post I called the cheval de frise the "shovel the fries". Is this the correct name? No. Should I have called it that? Probably not. Does it deserve a red dot? Definitely not. A PM asking me to call it the right name would have done just as much good. Thankfully, I'm pretty thick-skinned and this didn't turn me off CD, but if I were a new poster with little experience it could have very well made me never want to post again.

tl:dr the dot system is fine, our use of it might not be
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Unread 13-04-2016, 14:05
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

How do have a good experience on CD as a student:
  1. Don't be afraid to be wrong....
  2. ...but keep an open mind and welcome new perspectives.
  3. Rep is just dots.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 14:08
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

I really do like when kids are advocate for themselves. Sperkowsky - nice job.

And don't worry, mentors post stupid stuff too (just look at my history) - I have had to get a crow bar to remove the foot from my mouth sometimes.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 18:03
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

This isn't really a student problem. It's a "people who say things that aren't productive problem" It's just that in general students have less maturity and are more prone to saying things that shouldn't really be said.

I mean... Welcome to real life. Your actions have consequences and you aren't a child anymore. These things happen in real life too. You should care about what effect the words that come out of your mouth. You shouldn't care so much that you avoid productive discussion in fear of saying something incorrect.

Ultimately like others have said, it's just dots. If you are here on CD to have lots of dots on a screen or be famous within the FIRST community, I think you are here for the wrong reasons.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 12:23
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

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Originally Posted by Sperkowsky View Post
When I say safe place I do not mean neglecting the rep system. What I am saying is we should make sure students do not have their opinions shut down withoit real reason and the unnecessary reputation doesn't get thrown around.
I believe you make some solid points, especially pointing out that unnecessary reputation shouldn't be thrown around. But what may seem unnecessary to one person, may seem productive to another.

For example, I have been known to give red dots to students (usually ones that I personally mentor) who post on CD without editing their content to be more professional. It may seem frivolous to give red dots for text speak and incorrect grammar, but one of the things I appreciate about CD is the professional communication.

How do you better propose to encourage and teach students the proper way of interacting on CD?
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Unread 13-04-2016, 12:46
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

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Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace View Post
How do you better propose to encourage and teach students the proper way of interacting on CD?
Gray dots?

Again I like the dot system for the most part. I think a quick PM reminding someone that what they said is out of line may be the better way to handle the situation sometimes.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 12:51
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

Personally I never give red rep, only grey, because I can never be sure if I'm contradicting an opinion, tone, or just facts. I've been tempted to give red once or twice, but it's just not worth it.
I don't have a lot of rep for my posts because many of my posts are just "great robot! I have some questions...", because I feel like giving compliments isn't really a wasted post.
Students are the ones who need the red rep the least, especially because many times they just don't know any better. The killers are the "mentor built robot blah blah" kids who just picked that up from their own teams. I know my team has had a huge bias against powerhouse teams for several years, and only recently has the leadership been able to lessen it. I can see many of the students, who are great in other ways, mess up by repeating that sentiment online.
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Unread 14-04-2016, 17:33
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperkowsky View Post
Gray dots?

Again I like the dot system for the most part. I think a quick PM reminding someone that what they said is out of line may be the better way to handle the situation sometimes.
I like gray dots. They are a good option.

Mentors receive green, red, and gray dots. I've collected quite a few of all of them. The gray ones are the ones that I look to for information and clarity. Many good private discussions have come about because of the gray dot option. I have also had meaningful discussions from the red and green dot options, as well.

Hopefully, like being on a team, CD is a learning curve for many. Especially those who are committed to being passionate and engaged members. The cool thing about students is the growth aspect of being a team member and a member of CD. That is a given for this community. What is not a given and should be paid more attention to, is the growth and development of mentors. Mentoring, like robot design, is an opportunity for continual development and practical application in all aspects of the teams, programs, and in the CD community.

As you can point out your growth in participating in this forum - so can many mentors. It is a learning curve for everyone. Some of us can tend to forget that.

Jane
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Last edited by JaneYoung : 14-04-2016 at 17:37.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 12:56
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

When I was still a student, I didn't post very much on Chief Delphi because of the community's fixation with etiquette. The thing that brings us all here is FRC, so I expected more focus on robotics content. In the world of internet forums, CD is kind of like a staunch country club.

I still hold that opinion, but now I'm older and don't care as much about how other people on the internet think, so I just post about robots and try not to worry too much.
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Unread 13-04-2016, 13:07
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Re: Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

When I was a student, I don't recall having a difficult time on CD with the rep system or being taken seriously. For the most part, I just asked questions for help, with the occasional strategy and team organization question. The majority of my posts actually come from Fantasy FIRST. I think Eric Leifermann has a good point though, and today's social media and sites like reddit that are popular with high school students tend to have a lot of constantly refreshing content. When I was a student, i used to browse and "lurk" CD a lot, which I think is perfectly acceptable and, in fact, is a good way of understanding how to post properly and effectively in the community.

The best advice I could give to a student who is making their CD account is to just read the discussions going on and have an open mind before posting; this way the students can understand how discussions happen and how to contribute to the discussion.
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