Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

[Rachel Lim]

I don't think it's hard to be a student on CD.

I think it's hard to communicate clearly, especially on the internet.

How you say something is often just as important as what you say.

[alephzer0]

Originally Posted by Rachel Lim

I don't think it's hard to be a student on CD.

I think it's hard to communicate clearly, especially on the internet.

How you say something is often just as important as what you say.

Yeah, it's quite difficult when you don't have body language and tone of voice. The internet also happens to be a cruel and unforgiving place.

[BrennanB]

This isn't really a student problem. It's a "people who say things that aren't productive problem" It's just that in general students have less maturity and are more prone to saying things that shouldn't really be said.

I mean... Welcome to real life. Your actions have consequences and you aren't a child anymore. These things happen in real life too. You should care about what effect the words that come out of your mouth. You shouldn't care so much that you avoid productive discussion in fear of saying something incorrect.

Ultimately like others have said, it's just dots. If you are here on CD to have lots of dots on a screen or be famous within the FIRST community, I think you are here for the wrong reasons.

[ATannahill]

Something that can be useful for everyone to keep in mind is that the English language is imperfect. My message start off as thoughts in my head which I then put into words via my keyboard. Someone else then interprets these words and from them creates thoughts in their heads. Are they thinking what I was thinking when I formed the words? It's doubtful. Body language and vocal tone can help in these situations, but we don't have that on CD. There is a currently active thread that seems to be having a good number of issues with this. If you feel that someone is not respecting you, feel free to send them a pm as to try to get better communication.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

This isn't really a student problem. It's a "people who say things that aren't productive problem" It's just that in general students have less maturity and are more prone to saying things that shouldn't really be said.

I mean... Welcome to real life. Your actions have consequences and you aren't a child anymore. These things happen in real life too. You should care about what effect the words that come out of your mouth. You shouldn't care so much that you avoid productive discussion in fear of saying something incorrect.

Ultimately like others have said, it's just dots. If you are here on CD to have lots of dots on a screen or be famous within the FIRST community, I think you are here for the wrong reasons.

Originally Posted by Rachel Lim

I don't think it's hard to be a student on CD.

I think it's hard to communicate clearly, especially on the internet.

How you say something is often just as important as what you say.

Just curious do not take this the wrong way. Were either you active on chiefdelphi as students. I should say I am not the only one with these feelings I have had over 10 students say the same thing.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Just curious do not take this the wrong way. Were either you active on chiefdelphi as students. I should say I am not the only one with these feelings I have had over 10 students say the same thing.

Yes. I was.

Like I said, many students don't really have the maturity to post productive/have constructive conversations. (even though some of them may think that they do)

Honestly that goes for mentors/adults too. I am aware of many students who felt 100% comfortable on CD.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

Yes. I was.

Like I said, many students don't really have the maturity to post productive/have constructive conversations. (even though some of them may think that they do)

Honestly that goes for mentors/adults too. I am aware of many students who felt 100% comfortable on CD.

Again don't take this the wrong way but I notice you didnt start a thread until 2013 once you were already a mentor. Was the reason for this?

[Ozuru]

I'm not really sure what the original post was about. It sounds like you made a thread praising the redeeming powers of the reputation plugin that the forum has.

In reply to your title, if you need the validation of everyone around you, being anyone involved in any arena of discussion will be hard. It's a forum on the internet. Some people aren't going to like what you say and others are going to be rude about it.

People also say stupid things. If this thread was started in reference to the replies you got for this post, it surely wasn't personal. If you say something stupid and a mentor calls you out on it, it doesn't mean that mentors on Chief Delphi are prejudice against students. It just means you made a dumb comment.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by Ozuru

I'm not really sure what the original post was about. It sounds like you made a thread praising the redeeming powers of the reputation plugin that the forum has.

In reply to your title, if you need the validation of everyone around you, being anyone involved in any arena of discussion will be hard. It's a forum on the internet. Some people aren't going to like what you say and others are going to be rude about it.

People also say stupid things. If this thread was started in reference to the replies you got for this post, it surely wasn't personal. If you say something stupid and a mentor calls you out on it, it doesn't mean that mentors on Chief Delphi are prejudice against students. It just means you made a dumb comment.

Actually I did not get flamed too bad for the past. Didn't even get a red dot until after I started this thread.

I still hold to that statement it was just taken out of context.

[pilleya]

From my experiences I don’t think it is particularly hard to be a student on CD, you just need to realise where you are capable of contributing to the discussion effectively and the areas in which you might not be able to.

For me I find I am confident in lots of the technical discussions, about part use, how to make this work etc. But I refrain from some discussions. I find it is really important that if you are going to post something about a contentious issue or something that could be taken differently to how you intended it that you need to be careful. I often type up my posts in MS Word, and will make 2 or 3 revisions before I am comfortable to post it. Even then I might send the post to one of my team mates, to have a read through and check or a mentor if I feel that it is necessary. I made a bad decision in the past, not on CD but in an email. It is very easy to write something you don’t want too, when you are tired, stressed or feel like something has really upset you. It is extremely easy to click send, before realising that you shouldn’t have sent it. I find that it is best to type it up, then maybe leave it until the next morning or a few hours and have a read over it. Maybe someone else might have expressed your view point in a better way, or maybe you’ll realise that it isn’t the best thing to send or post.

[EmileH]

Originally Posted by Rachel Lim

I don't think it's hard to be a student on CD.

I think it's hard to communicate clearly, especially on the internet.

How you say something is often just as important as what you say.

Exactly. One of the things I am constantly reminding myself of is that I am a part of an internet community, even after being an active CD poster for 1+ years and a lurker several years prior. Everybody's gonna scrutinize your every word, and occasionally you'll get that one person who is having a rough day and didn't like what you said or felt hurt by it and will give you some negative rep. Unfortunately, like referee mistakes, unwarranted red dots are part of the experience. However, how you deal with situations like that - like what Sam has done here - is what gives you positive rep, and in my opinion that builds character and is also a part of the experience of FIRST. Calmly realizing that what you said was wrong and sending an apology or even asking some of the CD veterans (BrendanB comes to mind for me) whether or not they thought your post was inflammatory is always better than starting a red dot conflict.

[IronicDeadBird]

I actually tell a lot of students to be careful when posting on Chief Delphi because as much as those dots mean nothing, they still reflect on the team.
In other words you can make your team look bad for whatever reason someone feels like be it that they felt you could be nicer, or that you made a mistake on a fact.
Either way I've noticed chief delphi is great for advice and trouble shooting, but I tell students not to try and get a big conversation going because it can get heated. I've tried to start conversations that I am legitimately interested in, and that I am trying to be neutral in, only for someone to come in with a "this is how it is end of thread" which for a curious student can be earth shattering, but as an adult it is just a whatever.
My recent example is you hear a lot about the pros and cons of bag and tag, and I tried having a discussion where I wanted to talk about what shift would happen (if any) if bag and tag was removed. Wasn't trying to say it was a good idea, wasn't trying to say it was a bad idea, I just wanted to know what chief delphi thought, it wasn't a very long lasting conversation...

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

I mean... Welcome to real life. Your actions have consequences and you aren't a child anymore. These things happen in real life too. You should care about what effect the words that come out of your mouth.

CD is quite different than most of the Internet, in that we enforce civility (and grammar and spelling and...). But not just for the sake of doing it*, but to (try to) help some realize that unprofessional expression is not conducive to, er, professionalism. If you write like an idiot, your career can be jeopardized: Learn here, not after it counts for a lot.

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

the English language is imperfect.

Indeed, but with effort one can communicate very subtle nuances. It just takes a high level of literacy. English can be an exceptionally precise language.

*Well, most of us don't

[Steven Smith]

In my opinion, CD provides an environment that is different than the normal mentoring of students. The biggest thing is that in my team/community, I am physically looking at a student when I talk to them, so my mind just "goes" to a mentoring type conversation.

On CD, unless it is explicitly stated in the post such that I can't miss it, I honestly don't always check "Team Role" to see if I'm talking to a mentor or student, though I might try to do so more often. Therefore, many students might get feedback as though an adult were talking to an adult, without as much of a filter.

I can see benefits of this for students, as you get into the "real world" and this feedback style will quickly become the norm for you, but I also agree that CD could be considered as less welcoming at times than would be desired, which could keep students from wanting to join.

I will echo the earlier comments that the original post has merit, and though it isn't the first time to be brought up, it is worth discussing the impact of the CD culture on students. You appear to have grown a lot and are contributing in a net positive way to the CD community, both through an increased quality of posts and efforts like your F4 show. You will likely face resistance if you push too hard for "others to change", but you could certainly impact the culture over time by continuing to set an example of how to make the board more welcoming.

Finally, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but for any others reading, I typically consider it proper etiquette to double check with the sender of a PM before posting it to a public audience. It is the equivalent to recording a conversation with someone (off the record), and posting it on YouTube without their permission. It's easy to stave off any questions by noting on the quoted PM that you double checked with the author for permission to repost, as you thought the feedback had value for a wider audience.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Again don't take this the wrong way but I notice you didnt start a thread until 2013 once you were already a mentor. Was the reason for this?

I was a student in 2013. Also you don't need to make threads to be an active person on CD. Sometimes I think we even have too many repeat/nonsensical/boring ones.