Texas UIL State Championship Qualification Information

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by itsjustmrb

Mr. Blake,
I respect everything you do and have done to make 3481 such a respectable robotics program. It is very hard for me to answer your question without asking a question myself.
Do you think it is advantageous to have students from multiple non-uil, private (homeschoolers are considered private schools in Texas) schools on your team?
I do not know the answer to this since our district prohibits non district students from participating in our robotics program.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I think Micheal's goal is to make sure we are are being as inclusive as possible. Spectrum is in an interesting situation, say for instance we don't get one of those 10 invites. In theory I could remove all my St. Agnes Academy girls from the roster and then I would meet the definition of a UIL teams since only my boys who attend a UIL school would be "on the team". I could then add back the girls on to roster the day after the event. That clearly is a stupid thing to do (and I would never do it) but the rules don't seem to disallow it. It seems to me if anyone wants to be a "UIL school" they just remove everyone form the roster but the 3-4 students needed for drive team and make sure they are UIL students and everyone is good to go for that day. The current rules need to be far more detailed about what it means to be a student on a team, when that roster needs to exist, what non-roster students are allowed to do at an event, if they are going to hold up this ruling.

[wireties]

My instinct is to be inclusive to greatest extent possible. But I'll point out one not oft-mentioned fact. Being a UIL program (if one considers that a positive) comes with some onerous UIL rules (about time per student per week etc) that non-UIL teams do not have to consider. It is non-trivial to mix the two categories of teams but I hope they do...

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by itsjustmrb

Mr. Blake,
I respect everything you do and have done to make 3481 such a respectable robotics program. It is very hard for me to answer your question without asking a question myself.
Do you think it is advantageous to have students from multiple non-uil, private (homeschoolers are considered private schools in Texas) schools on your team?
I do not know the answer to this since our district prohibits non district students from participating in our robotics program.

It's not a question, for me, of "advantageous" or not, since we've had top students of equal contribution from all 3 buckets (public/private/home) over the years and I would expect that to continue.

What it's about is being _cruel_ IMO to private/home school teenagers.

I'll explain... EVERY private/home school student that has been on our team sought us out and explained how much they loved and wanted to do FRC and _asked_ if they could join our team since there would be no other alternative within their area for them to participate in FRC.

IF it's about the teenagers, the kids, IMO it's _cruel_ to turn them away from something where they're hungry and deserving to participate knowing that they'll have _no other_ way to be on an FRC team--that's the way I see it.

--Michael Blake

[lynca]

Originally Posted by Jrizo

It makes me extremely sad that we will not be able to attend TRR this year.

Many teams will not be invited to TRR this year.
There are more Texas Offseason competitions

1. TRI - Houston
2. Robot Remix - Woodlands
3. Robot Reboot - Fort Worth
4. Red Stick Rumble - Louisiana

Sign up for as many off-seasons as you can, every event makes your team better.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by wireties

My instinct is to be inclusive to greatest extent possible. But I'll point out one not oft-mentioned fact. Being a UIL program (if one considers that a positive) comes with some onerous UIL rules (about time per student per week etc) that non-UIL teams do not have to consider. It is non-trivial to mix the two categories of teams but I hope they do...

It's my understanding that the rules you speak of are not UIL rules but our Texas State Board of Education rules that should (in theory) by followed by all students in the state participating in extra curricular activities. Please provide any evidence to the contrary if you have it, I've been asked about this a lot.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by lynca

3. Robot Reboot - Fort Worth

I've been told Reboot isn't happening this year by 4206. If anyone hears different please post about it.

[Mr.Frishman]

Mr. Blake-
To answer your question I dont really see how this creates two tiers. 3999 doesnt get any money from our school districts, so no money from UIL would be no different. To me this would be like having an All Star team that could compete in the All Star Game, but could not become the World Series Champions. If the stated mission of your team is to be a place where any student could be a part of the team than you have to be able to accept that you cannot compete in UIL.
Simply put, we know we cant compete in UIL and honestly dont care as long as we can still be full members of the FRC Community. I will repeat this: We will be going through the selection process just everyone else. If it results in 3999 not receiving an invitation to TRR then so be it. We will not try to be part of UIL or fight the things we know we cannot change.

[itsjustmrb]

Allen,

I am not trying to get at anything.

I am just curious to know, if there are really two classes of FIRST students, does the team with private school or non UIL students have more or less benefits than a UIL school.

Is the complication of the UIL Robotics rules worth the hassle of recruiting students not in our high school?

From the limited amount of information I have, I am not sure the UIL schools are the one with more benefits, other than in a UIL on competition, which FIRST is not.

I do not intend for my question to be taken out of context and start a problem that is not there. I will no longer be posting on this thread, if anyone would like to discuss this further, please send me a pm.

[Jrizo]

Originally Posted by lynca

Many teams will not be invited to TRR this year.
There are more Texas Offseason competitions

1. TRI - Houston
2. Robot Remix - Woodlands
3. Robot Reboot - Fort Worth
4. Red Stick Rumble - Louisiana

Sign up for as many off-seasons as you can, every event makes your team better.

All of these require an overnight stay for our team TRR is a short drive from Waco

[Mr.Frishman]

Joe-
What is precluding The Metallic Clouds from applying for one of the slots? This is only a temporary thing for this year. 10 teams like ours will be at the event.
-Leigh

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by itsjustmrb

I do not intend for my question to be taken out of context and start a problem that is not there. I will no longer be posting on this thread, if anyone would like to discuss this further, please send me a pm.

Don't stop posting here, please... we're ALL friendly here... ;-)

--Michael Blake

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by itsjustmrb

Is the complication of the UIL Robotics rules worth the hassle of recruiting students not in our high school?

WHO recruits?! Private/home schoolers find us and approach us to join our team year-after-year.

THAT now stops for 3481 as instructed by our UIL certified public school district which is their prerogative--but I don't have to be happy about it even though I love our school and they've been super-supportive in most everything else.

Starting next season, I have to now turn-away hungry to contribute in FRC and deserving private/home school teenagers who will have no other reasonable way of being on an FRC team if they cannot be on ours.

--Michael Blake

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

WHO recruits?! Private/home schoolers find us and approach us to join our team year-after-year.

THAT now stops for 3481 as instructed by UIL certified Northside ISD which is their prerogative--but I don't have to be happy about it.

Starting next season, I have to now turn-away hungry to contribute in FRC and deserving teenagers who will have no other reasonable way of being on an FRC team if they cannot be on ours.

--Michael Blake

Michael, this sounds like your frustration is not with anyone on this forum, any FRC team, any FRC volunteer, or even FIRST in Texas. If your ISD is instructing you on this policy, then I would suggest you address these complaints to your ISD or to UIL directly. You certainly have contacts in your ISD and there is a UIL contact listed in the announcement distributed by FIRST in Texas.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by jee7s

Michael, this sounds like your frustration is not with anyone on this forum, any FRC team, any FRC volunteer, or even FIRST in Texas. If your ISD is instructing you on this policy, then I would suggest you address these complaints to your ISD or to UIL directly. You certainly have contacts in your ISD and there is a UIL contact listed in the announcement distributed by FIRST in Texas.

OF COURSE my frustration is directly with FIRST-in-Texas.

They DID NOT have to do this deal in this form. I was at the meeting in Austin with FiT and UIL... I didn't see you there, Jeffrey?!

They could've said, IF we can't get a UIL deal that doesn't _exclude_ ANY students then we won't do it.

But, the lure, and there's _always_ the lure, of exploding revenue to FIRST-in-Texas by the expected jump in team numbers from this agreement was the driving factor to doing a deal that results in throwing some students under the bus IMO.

--Michael Blake

[FBHS_Robotics]

I will preface this by saying that I am not affiliated with any FRC team. I am an FTC guy. By their very nature the two have very different issues as it relates to UIL. I understand the discussions that have been going back and forth about mixed teams, non school teams, etc. There is a lot of discussion about the exclusion of home school kids, private school kids, etc. While it might not be "fair" that is how UIL works. In addition to robotics, I am the sponsor for our UIL Computer Science team. If a home school student comes to me and shows a love for learning programming and wants to be a part of the team, I have to tell them no. That's how it works and it won't change.

If TAPPS wanted to start a robotics competition, I doubt they would let the public schools join them. That is how it works. By choosing to be a home school student or a going to a private school, a student gives us their right to compete in events sponsored by organization focused on public schools.

Now with that said, I will transition to the FTC issue I see and I ask for feedback/discussion. In UIL every other team competition, only one team per school is allowed to compete. However, for UIL robotics, there is no limit on how many teams from one school can compete if more than one school meets the requirements. Back to my Comp. Sci. analogy. A CS team is made up of 3 students....If I have students and can make the best 2 CS teams around, I can still only send one to UIL Competitions. Why is robotics being handles differently? If the intent is to promote robotics and increase participation, how is allowing a school to send 5 or 6 teams going to do that. It won't. And before any of my colleagues play the "if you want to go get better card", let me again go to every other UIL event. Multiple teams from one school are not allowed to compete. If a school could field 2 state champion level debate teams, they can't send them. If a school sends multiple teams to invitational and/or practice meets and they win every award, they still can't send them to even a district level event. One team per school is the rule for every other team UIL event. Why should robotics be any different? UIL is using the FTC game for his state event, they should limit participation to one team per school. If a school has 7 or 8 high caliber teams, they can advance through the normal FTC process and go to Worlds. Taking teams that have already advanced to Worlds and saying those are the teams get to compete for the UIL State Championship is, imo, unfair to other UIL schools that have programs and weren't able to advance.

Ok, climbing off of my soapbox for now.