Why it is sometimes hard to be a student on CD.

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Again don't take this the wrong way but I notice you didnt start a thread until 2013 once you were already a mentor. Was the reason for this?

I'd like to provide some insight on this too - I've started 11 threads since I joined in 2007. Three christmas card exchanges, 4 WAIs, 2 other CD-Media threads, and an article from CNN. I don't feel the need to start threads because my questions can usually be answered by the rulebook, Q&A, Google, or a friend who's a better-suited engineer than I am (I'm a materials engineer who does primarily mechanical work in FRC - physics isn't my thing). I don't CAD (anymore) or design gearboxes/drivetrains/etc or program or think about intricate strategic scenarios or enjoy stat analysis, which is what most of the technical discussion on here is about. Most of my posts as a student were caption contest entries, occasional event discussion, and non-technical discussion (in threads like this). For me, when I was a student and still now as a mentor, it has nothing to do with how I feel I the community will receive my posts, I just don't have anything to discuss/ask. But, I do read constantly, use the search function frequently, and have learned A LOT over the past several years.

I see many students posting regularly with confidence. I also have spoken with many students off-line about how they just read and don't post, because they're worried they'll be met with aggression (some stating that they're worried it will reflect poorly on their team). CD has changed a lot since I was a student, so I can only comment based on what I've heard expressed by current students.

When I was doing this year's christmas card exchange, I had a PM discussion with a student, I suggested that one of us post about the discussion in the thread, and they responded that they would rather I make the post because "You're a mentor so you're less likely to be yelled at by stricter members". That is an exact quote.

That is NOT the kind of environment we want here, and I think that this is the perception a lot of students have of CD (hence, this thread). I can't blame students for not wanting to be yelled at by adults. However, outside of the controversial threads, I think we do a pretty good job of being courteous and respectful of each other. Spelling mistakes, etc. aren't nit-picked as much, emotions aren't flying, help is provided where needed and questions are answered. Unfortunately, the controversial topics are the ones that tend to bring out the argumentative side in a lot of people, and those are the threads that get the most visibility. I think is primarily what gives CD a bad rap. I think that the other contributor is that I see student posts ignored in large discussion threads, which can give off an impression of exclusivity - that CD is just for mentors who know what they're talking about. A lot of posts get ignored and not responded to for a lot of reasons (post doesn't lead itself to further discussion, not actually relevant, etc), but if it's a repeated experience, I can see how students would feel unwelcome.

This also isn't limited to just students - I've spoken with a lot of mentors who feel the same way as the students.

[dtengineering]

<Chuckle>

Well, this thread has filled up quickly!

When I got involved with FRC I thought it was about encouraging more young people to explore a future in Science, Technology and Engineering related fields.

And yeah, it kind of is... but it is also about encouraging young people who have already decided to go into those fields to improve their communication and teamwork skills. In a lot of ways, I've found this second point to be more meaningful.

A very important thing to learn about communications is that when a thought is expressed in writing that it is both very permanent, and also independent from the intent with which it was said. It lacks the context of the wry tone of voice, the frustrated expression... all of those cues that say, "even though I'm saying this thing, I don't really mean it in a negative way".

So it is very, very important when writing in a public space (it matters anywhere, but particularly in a public space) to be very clear about what you are writing and ensure that it expresses your best intent.

Expressing oneself clearly and professionally in writing is just as important a skill as being able to use CAD, or run a mill. In fact, it is probably more important in the long run.

CD, being popular with a number of experienced mentors, does a good job of encouraging clear, professional, communication. That doesn't make it hard to be a student... but it does make it hard to be careless, or lazy in one's approach to communication.

And that is an important part of the competitive robotics learning experience.

Jason

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

A very important thing to learn about communications is that when a thought is expressed in writing that it is both very permanent, and also independent from the intent with which it was said. It lacks the context of the wry tone of voice, the frustrated expression... all of those cues that say, "even though I'm saying this thing, I don't really mean it in a negative way".

So it is very, very important when writing in a public space (it matters anywhere, but particularly in a public space) to be very clear about what you are writing and ensure that it expresses your best intent.

Expressing oneself clearly and professionally in writing is just as important a skill as being able to use CAD, or run a mill. In fact, it is probably more important in the long run.

CD, being popular with a number of experienced mentors, does a good job of encouraging clear, professional, communication. That doesn't make it hard to be a student... but it does make it hard to be careless, or lazy in one's approach to communication.

And that is an important part of the competitive robotics learning experience.

Jason

^This.

EVERY online forum has its share of trolls & snipers. (see:Reddit)

CD has more provenance than most, however, we see the same dynamic here that plays out within our teams where mentors may dominate the tenor & direction of "discussions", & "conversations".