Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts

[PayneTrain]

We attended 2 regionals in the traditional system. We walked (yes) to one of them every year. We traveled anywhere between 2 hours by car to 5 hours by plane to go to our second regional. The travel event always featured lodging. The travel event had a wide range of costs from under $100 per student including meals and lodging in DC to "I'm way too embarrassed to release that number, holy hell, we paid that much for a regional and no one fired me?" for Alamo. The BBQ was pretty great though.

We attended 3 district events. Week 2 and Week 3 were travel events while Week 4 was a local event. Both events cost a little over $100 per student. Week 2 was within our system and a 3 hour drive and the Week 3 was outside of our system and carried with it a 6 hour drive. Also I stopped for Fuddruckers, so it was closer to 7. Apparently I was not supposed to stop at Fuddruckers but I was very hungry. Our Week 4 event required a 1 hour drive so we didn't do lodging. I don't know if it stopped smelling like horse manure on the second day or if I just got used to it.

Our DCMP was about 2.5ish hours away without traffic, through the bustling construction project known as the DC Beltway. We stayed at a hotel there, obviously. I think the cost there was around $175 because of geography and extra nights we stayed there compared to other events.

According to The Blue Alliance, 422 competed in 93 matches and walked home with 5 trophies in my time as a student (2009-2012). In the 2016 season, 422 has played in 70 matches --so far-- and has walked away with... 5 trophies.

"Bbut Wil, it's not about the trophies or the matches!"

It's a measuring stick I can use that is indicative of multiple things.

We put in a rookie driver and human player this year with ZERO offseason experience. For a variety of reasons, I would have found pushing bamboo into my nailbeds to be a better use of time and energy than competing in an offseason in the 2015 season. We decided to flip our offseason budget into and OOD event pretty easily and boy did it pay off. The kids loved that event more than Championships! We were able to develop our drive team over the entire season.

That leads into the two big things for me. The ability to actually have a comprehensive season helps me as a coach both chart the development of our program and use milestones that parallel that of traditional sports to leverage additional support of my program. The district system format also axes the dreadful "win or die" mentality that comes with the traditional regional format. We would have NEVER had an opportunity to have the students who grinded out that robot design win an Industrial Design Award at a regional. The talent pool is too thick at the top for technical awards. In the regional system, we would be staying at home after finishing as semifinalists at 2 events and finalists at the other 2; instead we finished 5th in our district system and are advancing to championships.

The coverage and support from the school has started to blossom again for the first time in years, and I have the pleasure of watching the kids come back and retool the team after every event to help get the results they want.

I really do worry about how the extended cost and support requirements are going to affect teams and volunteers long term. Stan and the VirginiaFIRST team are turning into fundraising machines and I hope that means that FIRST Chesapeake will use that to transfer the region into the PNW model. I know we can afford the fees but we know that is both a rare position to be in and a difficult one to stay in. Volunteering long term presents both threats and opportunities. I saw a lot of the same faces at events and those same faces tended to look a tad more beaten as the season progressed. VirginiaFIRST has an opportunity to engage with the larger teams near the district sites to identify and train up volunteers of all ages, talents, skills, and importance if the lines are open so the same people aren't stuck doing events 12 weeks a year until they are ready to turn to dust.

[Michael Kaurich]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

So far so good. I'm concerned about volunteer burnout. The extra layer of competitions to get to World's, more directly the added cost, is annoying as all get out.

You are not the only one that is worried about the volunteer burnout. The events did an alright job of bringing some new people in but for long term sustainability is is on the community to help out with the key/technical roles. I am really looking forward to having some one shadow me next season for all of the extra equipment needed to set up an event.

As far as the costs are concerned, I am hoping the PNW's model is successful and becomes a model for things to come. If the districts can fundraise enough to drop costs for teams down to 5k for the district events and district championship (at least on the registration side) that is a huge win. Also, as more folks see what we are looking for on an event side hopefully it means closer events for a majority of teams.

[Maldridge422]

In its final two years, the Virginia regional was the only event Team 619 attended. We would drive an hour down I-64, stick around for 8-9 matches, then go home until next season. As a low resource team, we really couldn't build a high performing robot in six weeks.

The district system (along with some AMAZING students, parents, and mentors) just gave us the best season in the history of our team. The district system gave us TWENTY-FOUR qualification matches, which is three times more than we played in 2015.

We purposefully spread out our competitions this year, attending a week 1 and a week 4 event. Using this spacing and the unbag time before the events gave our team the opportunity to do something we hadn't been able to do in the regional system: iterate. Through iteration we bulletproofed our drive train, locked in our vision tracking and high goal shooting, reinvented our defense manipulation, and prototyped several climbers.

Through this iteration, and the smaller tournament sizes, we created a robot that competed in more elimination matches than every other 619 robot combined.

Do I miss competing alongside 60+ other FRC teams in an impressive arena in the coolest city on earth? Absolutely--but my students are much more inspired by a system that gives us more competition and more design time.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Maldridge422

In its final two years, the Virginia regional was the only event Team 619 attended. We would drive an hour down I-64, stick around for 8-9 matches, then go home until next season. As a low resource team, we really couldn't build a high performing robot in six weeks.

The district system (along with some AMAZING students, parents, and mentors) just gave us the best season in the history of our team. The district system gave us TWENTY-FOUR qualification matches, which is three times more than we played in 2015.

We purposefully spread out our competitions this year, attending a week 1 and a week 4 event. Using this spacing and the unbag time before the events gave our team the opportunity to do something we hadn't been able to do in the regional system: iterate. Through iteration we bulletproofed our drive train, locked in our vision tracking and high goal shooting, reinvented our defense manipulation, and prototyped several climbers.

Through this iteration, and the smaller tournament sizes, we created a robot that competed in more elimination matches than every other 619 robot combined.

Do I miss competing alongside 60+ other FRC teams in an impressive arena in the coolest city on earth? Absolutely--but my students are much more inspired by a system that gives us more competition and more design time.

matt if you wanted to compete with 60+ other FRC teams in an impressive arena you could have just beaten us in quarters <3

[Maldridge422]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

matt if you wanted to compete with 60+ other FRC teams in an impressive arena you could have just beaten us in quarters <3

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Michael Kaurich

You are not the only one that is worried about the volunteer burnout. The events did an alright job of bringing some new people in but for long term sustainability is is on the community to help out with the key/technical roles. I am really looking forward to having some one shadow me next season for all of the extra equipment needed to set up an event.

As far as the costs are concerned, I am hoping the PNW's model is successful and becomes a model for things to come. If the districts can fundraise enough to drop costs for teams down to 5k for the district events and district championship (at least on the registration side) that is a huge win. Also, as more folks see what we are looking for on an event side hopefully it means closer events for a majority of teams.

The First year was tough for the PNW district core volunteer base for certain. We gained a few for the second season and few more this year and we have another group that has inquired about stepping up next year. So at least in our case it has got better every year. I hope it does for you as well.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Actually the person who posted about the second full field is a different Darren, he is the Lead Mentor Bear Metal 2046. The Darrin that is the MC with the most energy and style in the PNW is with Hi Tekkers #3574.

I wasn't sure about taking the complete second field, I'm glad that it was done and I hope that we can do it again next year.

Thanks for the correction. Good to know, i was not totally sure myself.

[Peyton Yeung]

While I'm not from the CHS, NC, not PCH districts I can tell you about the IN district.

# events per year your team attended in the Regional system.

2 regionals (2 in state while a college mentor)

Time to drive to the Regional(s) you had attended and if your team had to arrange for lodging because of the drive.

5 mins and 2 hours. Hotels for the out of town events event

Time to drive to both of your District events and if that included lodging for one or both of those events.

15 mins for event 1 and 1 hour for event 2. Slept at home for event 1 and had a hotel for event 2.

Did your team qualify for the DCMP. If they did, the travel time and if lodging was needed.

Qualified for DCMP and it was an hour drive. We're staying overnight.

Finally please tell us the specific things that you like or dislike about the District or Regional system.

Likes: lots of matches, short drive to events, more likely to advance to worlds

Dislikes: Playing the same teams every event (we're playing against the no 1 ranked team in Indiana this weekend 3x and last year we played against the no 1 seed 3 times at the same event as well), having to win major awards 2x to qualify for worlds, small/cramped events with limited air conditioning

[Anupam Goli]

Take a look at my custom user title.

The only thing I disliked was having very little pit time at DCMP before matches started. we had a very rough first day and a half and we're still trying to get all of our robot functional again.

[Michael Kaurich]

Originally Posted by Mr V

The First year was tough for the PNW district core volunteer base for certain. We gained a few for the second season and few more this year and we have another group that has inquired about stepping up next year. So at least in our case it has got better every year. I hope it does for you as well.

There are also a lot of changes that happen with some of the roles. IE, Robot Inspection. It is crucial to have more inspectors on hand for Day 0 at the earlier week events. There isn't nearly as much time as there is at a regional to get teams through an inspection process. This role can be filled by mentors who are at the competition with their team and then shift to being with their team full time the rest of the event.

We are hoping some mentors will be willing to be trained as Inspectors on their own robot before the season starts so they know what the LRI is training inspectors to be on the look out for and how to teach their students how to build a better robot. Hopefully this is successful and is a win/win for both our teams and the events.

[notmattlythgoe]

# events per year your team attended in the Regional system.
2

Time to drive to the Regional(s) you had attended and if your team had to arrange for lodging because of the drive.
1.5 hours and 3-7 hours depending on the second event. WE arranged for lodging at both events.

Time to drive to both of your District events and if that included lodging for one or both of those events.
30 mins and 3 hours. We arranged for lodging for one event.

Did your team qualify for the DCMP. If they did, the travel time and if lodging was needed.
Yes, 3 hours, and lodging was arranged.

Finally please tell us the specific things that you like or dislike about the District or Regional system.
I have been a supporter of VA switching to districts for many many years. There is nothing worse than a team spending $5k to attend an event after spending 6 weeks building a robot to play 8 times and then go home just to repeat the next year. Even if a team elects to only sign up for a single district event they are getting a 50% play increase for the same cost.

The system allows for several stages of iteration on the robot. We went into our season planning on having a low goal breaching robot that can climb for week 1. We succeeded with the low goal breaching bot but the climber did not work as well as we would have liked. For week 3 we got the climber tweaked and working. Then for the DCMP we added a high goal shooter at the event. This system is only going to grow teams and make the areas more competitive.

The system will also open communication lines between teams as you see the other teams more and more. By opening communication resources and lessons learned can be shared.

The downsides are more time and more money. But as I said, this can be alleviated by only signing up for a single event (however I really hope this is not the route people choose). The volunteer base will grow, this is a growing pain that every single area will go through with the switch and will get better as the years go on.

But if you can't tell by my post, I LOVE DISTRICTS. This is what this sport should be. High school sports are not played in convention centers and college arenas, they are played in high school gymnasiums. This gives more exposure to the community and will help grow and support the teams. I am very happy to see that the overwhelming majority of teams are voting for districts over regionals.

Originally Posted by Peyton Yeung

Dislikes: Playing the same teams every event (we're playing against the no 1 ranked team in Indiana this weekend 3x and last year we played against the no 1 seed 3 times at the same event as well), having to win major awards 2x to qualify for worlds, small/cramped events with limited air conditioning[/b]

I have emailed Frank and asked about official inter-district play being opened between the districts. With MAR, CHS, and NC all right next to each other this seems like the prime location to pilot this. Teams could compete at any district events they want but earn points towards their own DCMP. This would help alleviate seeing the same teams over and over again. It would also allow teams on the edges of their districts(like 1629) to travel to events that are in other districts but may be closer than any of their own districts events.

Franks response said that this has been brought up to the district leaders and was voted down. If this is something that you may be interested in doing please talk to your own districts and try to convince them that this is something the teams in your district could benefit from. I will be talking to Stan about it in detail. Frank said the topic would be brought up again to be discussed.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Michael Kaurich

There are also a lot of changes that happen with some of the roles. IE, Robot Inspection. It is crucial to have more inspectors on hand for Day 0 at the earlier week events. There isn't nearly as much time as there is at a regional to get teams through an inspection process. This role can be filled by mentors who are at the competition with their team and then shift to being with their team full time the rest of the event.

We are hoping some mentors will be willing to be trained as Inspectors on their own robot before the season starts so they know what the LRI is training inspectors to be on the look out for and how to teach their students how to build a better robot. Hopefully this is successful and is a win/win for both our teams and the events.

This is something that I brought up to some people on the CHS planning committee. They know it is a problem and they will be attempting to fix it. I suggested maybe training some mentors of the teams at the events to be inspectors on Day 0 of the events. This is something I would be willing to do.

[Michael Kaurich]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

This is something that I brought up to some people on the CHS planning committee. They know it is a problem and they will be attempting to fix it. I suggested maybe training some mentors of the teams at the events to be inspectors on Day 0 of the events. This is something I would be willing to do.

I am hoping a lot of mentors in Maryland/DC have a similar feeling. Wanted to give Rick Smith some time off before starting planning for next season as he was an amazing volunteer this year as the Senior LRI for CHS. I believe he worked every event for at least a day. Maybe we can get a training at a location in Maryland and Virginia before the season starts to expedite the process.

[JamesBrown]

I was 100% against districts coming into it. I started competing in New England, and loved the regionals there. The production value was incredible, and Dean, Woodie and company were always around. I knew there was no way you could recreate that in a High School Gym, and I thought that would hurt the experience.

That being said, I loved the CHS district model this year. For the record, we are a small (10 Students), low budget (approximately $10k raised through the district events.) Who qualified for both District Championships, and Worlds. We had to scramble twice for money (for District Champs and now for worls) but we have been successful in adding sponsors and nearly tripling our budget for the year.

The atmosphere is different, but I like it better. Regionals were all or nothing. You could have the best robot in the world, but if your partner broke in the finals, you may find yourself missing out on a trip to championships. Now, two solid performances earn you a trip to DCMP, and a third puts you in the mix for St. Louis. This takes some sting out of tough losses. In Blacksburg we lost an encoder in the Quarter Finals (the first thing to go wrong for us all weekend) that cost us some points in the Semis and ended our chances of winning the competition. In Doswell everything came together for us, but 401, our opponent in the finals lost a tread, in a regional this would have been devastating to them, likely costing them a trip to St. Louis. However with Districts, they already had accumulated enough points to move on, and we knew we would see them again in College Park (where 401 and 122 got their revenge on us and 1086).

We have a good robot this year, and a good drive team, we would have been competitive at a regional if we were still in that system, however winning a regional is a combination of having a good or great bot and a little bit of luck.

If we had competed in a regional instead we would have played 10-15 matches, and had maybe a 1 in 5 shot of making it to St. Louis. In the district system, we have played 50 matches (35 for the same cost as that regional would have been) and we punched our ticket to St Louis for the first time in this teams history.

[Dmentor]

Here is the requested information for the teams I work with:

1895:
2014 – 1 regional, 11 matches, travel (1:45)
2015 – 2 regionals, 24 matches, travel (1:45), local (0:30)
2016 – 2 district events + DCMP, 45 matches, local (0:25), travel (2:30), local (1:20)

2068:
2014 – 2 regionals, 29 matches, travel (1:45), local (0:30)
2015 – 1 regional, 11 matches, local (0:30)
2016 – 2 district events + DCMP, 44 matches, local (0:25), travel (2:30), travel (1:20)

4472:
2014 – 1 regional, 9 matches, travel (1:45)
2015 – 1 regional, 11 matches, local (0:30)
2016 – 2 district events, 27 matches, local (0:25), travel (2:30)

All teams are generally fans of the district model. We liked all the normally touted benefits of districts… more matches, more iteration, less time off work/school, competitive DCMP, more local teams rewarded and lots of interaction with teams we love playing with. Costs were approximately the same as prior years but we were able to attend more events. DCMP at UMD was excellent (VCU would have been as well). On the down side, seating/sight lines weren’t always the best at the smaller events and we missed seeing/playing with some of the out of area teams that would frequent the regionals.