Texas UIL State Championship Qualification Information

[FBHS_Robotics]

[quote=a

Being UIL could mean travel money for teams whenever they qualify for the "next level". It can mean students can get letter jackets (which while it's something silly in my book might mean something to plenty of students that wouldn't really letter in anything else).

[/QUOTE]

I don't think this will happen at all. It is not like being a UIL recognized event opens up purse strings that weren't open before. I have already been told by my UIL coordinator that there are no, and will not ever be, additional funds for robotics in the UIL budget.

As for letter jackets. My school gets those for my kids now even though we are not UIL. That is a school by school decision.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by FBHS_Robotics

I don't think this will happen at all. It is not like being a UIL recognized event opens up purse strings that weren't open before. I have already been told by my UIL coordinator that there are no, and will not ever be, additional funds for robotics in the UIL budget.

With respect, I think you underestimate the leverage, being a UIL sport, brings to local teams. It is already happening at our school. Informed that the Dallas competition was used to calculate points for the UIL State Championship we got transportation and other things paid by the school.

Principals prioritize UIL sports and clubs. All UIL activities contribute points to the sponsoring school. A successful robotics program might be pulled under the UIL blanket quickly - more "points", more prestige. Of course a principal or a team might chose to be non-UIL, even at a UIL eligible school. That is true of any sport or club.

[FBHS_Robotics]

Originally Posted by wireties

With respect, I think you underestimate the leverage, being a UIL sport, brings to local teams. It is already happening at our school. Informed that the Dallas competition was used to calculate points for the UIL State Championship we got transportation and other things paid by the school.

Principals prioritize UIL sports and clubs. All UIL activities contribute points to the sponsoring school. A successful robotics program might be pulled under the UIL blanket quickly - more "points", more prestige. Of course a principal or a team might chose to be non-UIL, even at a UIL eligible school. That is true of any sport or club.

I guess I am luckier than most than. My school pays for much of my travel and my equipment even though we are not UIL.

And since you bring up the "points" for UIL, it brings me back to my issue on the FTC side where they are letting multiple teams from a single school compete. UIL is going against the one school, one team policy it has for every other team event.

[Mr. Rip]

FRC 1477 has a student on the drive team that is from a non-UIL school. Looks like we will be applying for one of those ten open slots.

We also have students from multiple high schools and at least one from another school district. I think we are okay with respect to the former but I'm not sure about the latter.

[ahartnet]

Originally Posted by FBHS_Robotics

I don't think this will happen at all.

For some districts it almost assuredly will. For our district it's written into the board rules that if you qualify for the State level of a UIL competiton, that the school board helps fund travel (I forget the specifics without looking it up). In fact I think there may have been some kerfuffle about it because ____ goes directly to states without any regional/district competition and there were arguments that they shouldn't be funding their travel since they don't have to qualify prior. Again, that's specific to our district but I'd be surprised if we were the only one.

As far as letterman jackets go, you're correct - it's definitely a school to school decision. But if it's a UIL recognized thing - I'd be surprised if any team would be rejected being allowed to letter in robotics. Right now, we're told no lettering - but I'm hoping with UIL that'll change for our kids that really want to letter in Robotics.

[Drakxii]

Since the students are not the ones paying the UIL dues, the schools are, that first rule should just read:

1. Each team must be sponsored by at least 1 UIL member school.

This would allow team supported by the UIL school such as, 3847 and 3481, to play without having to kick people of the team.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by Drakxii

Since the students are not the ones paying the UIL dues, the schools are, that first rule should just read:

1. Each team must be sponsored by at least 1 UIL member school.

This would allow team supported by the UIL school such as, 3847 and 3481, to play without having to kick people of the team.

This is a holdover from competitive sports in UIL and probably will not see change.

For instance if this extended to football, I could open up "Johns private school for football" and recruit (things normal high schools cannot do) the best players in the state. Then I could basically "rent" them out to UIL schools so they could win games and championships. They would still be UIL since some of the team are UIL sponsored.

Its possible UIL makes exceptions for robots, but I doubt its the case. Its probably going to end up being more strict if anything and only allow students from 1 high school, killing conglomerate teams.

[Drakxii]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

This is a holdover from competitive sports in UIL and probably will not see change.

For instance if this extended to football, I could open up "Johns private school for football" and recruit (things normal high schools cannot do) the best players in the state. Then I could basically "rent" them out to UIL schools so they could win games and championships. They would still be UIL since some of the team are UIL sponsored.

Its possible UIL makes exceptions for robots, but I doubt its the case. Its probably going to end up being more strict if anything and only allow students from 1 high school, killing conglomerate teams.

True, but the current rules allows for conglomerate teams of students from any number of UIL schools so long as they don't have any non UIL members.

[FBHS_Robotics]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

This is a holdover from competitive sports in UIL and probably will not see change.

For instance if this extended to football, I could open up "Johns private school for football" and recruit (things normal high schools cannot do) the best players in the state. Then I could basically "rent" them out to UIL schools so they could win games and championships. They would still be UIL since some of the team are UIL sponsored.

Its possible UIL makes exceptions for robots, but I doubt its the case. Its probably going to end up being more strict if anything and only allow students from 1 high school, killing conglomerate teams.

But this doesn't address the issue of multiple teams from one school. I know that FRC has the conglomerate issue but FTC has the multi-team issue. I can't send multiple computer science teams to a UIL competition so why should I be able to send multiple robotics teams.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by FBHS_Robotics

But this doesn't address the issue of multiple teams from one school. I know that FRC has the conglomerate issue but FTC has the multi-team issue. I can't send multiple computer science teams to a UIL competition so why should I be able to send multiple robotics teams.

This is a pilot. Rules are subject to change. All we can do is provide feedback and hope they bother enough to read it

[Coach Norm]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

This is a pilot. Rules are subject to change. All we can do is provide feedback and hope they bother enough to read it

I have had great response from David Trussell with UIL when I call or email him in regards to UIL and robotics. David has been working with FIRST on this project for quite a while.

[dyanoshak]

I feel like this thread has gotten way off topic and readers will get the wrong impression about what is really happening in Texas.

The facts as stated by a few people in this thread and the FIRST in Texas website:

• TRR is switching to an invite model similar to other off-season events this year only. Invitations will go out based on the points method described on the FIT website and UIL eligibility. 10 slots PLUS any unfilled slots will be application based entry.
• TRR is also serving as a pilot UIL Texas State Championship, so any team that falls into the UIL bucket can be recognized within UIL circles. This doesn't affect any other standings/awards at the event.
• Any Texas FRC team or collection of FTC teams can continue participating, competing, winning, etc. as they would.
• If and only if that team wants to get recognized in UIL circles with UIL awards and UIL standings, they must be UIL eligible and follow UIL rules.
• The fact that UIL recognizes FIRST doesn't mean that suddenly every Texas FIRST team must make themselves UIL eligible.
• If a school is telling its FIRST team that it must remove students to be eligible, then it is a school issue, not a FIRST or FIRST in Texas issue.

UIL recognizing robotics doesn't prevent any existing or future teams and students from participating in FIRST. It only gives one more avenue for recognition for those who happen to qualify.

I’ve said it on CD before and I think it would be good advice for this thread:

As it states on the front cover of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: DON’T PANIC

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by dyanoshak

If a school is telling its FIRST team that it must remove students to be eligible, then it is a school issue, not a FIRST or FIRST in Texas issue.

Well the argument of this thread is, that by accepting a bid form UIL, some schools/districts will now require their teams be UIL eligible affecting existing teams. So the fact that some teams will have to restructure/turn away kids IS sort of a FIT issue.

While I think in the end, this won't be as big of a deal as some people think, I also believe its become apparent that a large group of Texas teams are not UIL eligible currently and it's concerning.

[dyanoshak]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

Well the argument of this thread is, that by accepting a bid form UIL, some schools/districts will now require their teams be UIL eligible affecting existing teams. So the fact that some teams will have to restructure/turn away kids IS sort of a FIT issue.

I still consider this a decision on the school district side of things. If the school says "now that there is a UIL option, you must compete in UIL" it is the school being exclusionary. I don't think it is fair to blame FIT’s move to get more schools involved (schools that don't look at anything but UIL).

My school has had a rule for a long time that we can't have students on the team from outside of the district; it is a liability issue independent of the UIL rules. I would assume most schools have similar rules that exist regardless of the UIL status of robotics.

2158 had home school and out of district kids on our team in our first few years until the administration noticed and told us to follow the rules. We had to restructure/turn away kids, but we made the best of it and helped them start their own programs.

It is quite possible that at the schools where teams MIGHT have to restructure, it would have happened anyway regardless of UIL participation once the administration realized that students from outside their school were participating on the school’s team.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by dyanoshak

I still consider this a decision on the school district side of things. If the school says "now that there is a UIL option, you must compete in UIL" it is the school being exclusionary.

I wouldn't use the word "exclusionary". It makes it sound like the UIL teams are doing something intentional. This is simply the beginnings of a merger of two organizations whose prior structures are not 100% compatible. I know in our district many policies, insurance and otherwise, are written with references to the UIL guidelines. It was easier since UIL is the predominant vehicle for all organized club and sports competitions. The school itself has no choice and the district had no malice. There may be some pre-existing public versus private school exclusion issues, too big a topic to debate on CD, but I do not think individual schools are being intentionally "exclusionary".